Its All About Me?

[The_Rookie]

Have you expereinced in your associations, members who feel "its all about me"? Recently, I get the vibe that many of my fellow members are very self contained worried about how much $$ they can make, level of recognition, and high profile games. While putting the association second and really not caring to groom younger officials who they might view as a future threat.

Your thoughts and experiences?

[Berkut]

Any group of human beings is going to be composed of the typical mix of d-bags, average schmoes, and people you want to emulate and learn from.

The key is figuring out who is who as quickly as possible so you can ignore those who deserve to be ignored, and listen to those who deserve to be listened to. With the caveat that even the d-bags might have something to teach you, so while you might have to deal with their d-baggedness, it is best to not alienate them if at all possible. Even a jerk might be good at their job.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Have you expereinced in your associations, members who feel "its all about me"? Recently, I get the vibe that many of my fellow members are very self contained worried about how much $$ they can make, level of recognition, and high profile games. While putting the association second and really not caring to groom younger officials who they might view as a future threat.

Your thoughts and experiences?

Not everyone is willing to train or prepared/able to train younger officials. Actually there are many that want to do that I would not want to train officials at all. That does not mean that they have the attitude you suggest. It might mean they are in their comfort zone and do not want to get out of that. We all do this for very different reasons.

Peace

[Refsmitty]

I have found that if I treat the veteran with the respect they deserve, most are very approachable and will let their guard down.

Even though they may have experience - I live by the motto - trust but verify when I am told something - from me asking or from an association trainer.

Here's to a healthy season all!

[Raymond]

I have found that a lot of newer officials are not truly interested in any type of criticism, constructive or otherwise, so I mind my business until someone shows me some sort of interest in learning.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have found that a lot of newer officials are not truly interested in any type of criticism, constructive or otherwise, so I mind my business until someone shows me some sort of interest in learning.

Exactly. Or they hear one thing and stop caring what someone else tells them.

This is a business and at the end of the day you have to make yourself available to get information. This is a fraternity that many younger officials do not completely understand as well. Many of us say something and we go and run to others with what we say. I can see some veterans being "guarded" to say much to a younger official. Not to be critical of "Rookie" but it is possible that he is misreading the behavior of veterans. Their behavior does not necessarily have to do with someone brand new taking their job. Actually a new person is not going to ever take my games in the first place.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by badnewsref

i have found that a lot of newer officials are not truly interested in any type of criticism, constructive or otherwise, so i mind my business until someone shows me some sort of interest in learning.

bingo!

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Any group of human beings is going to be composed of the typical mix of d-bags, average schmoes, and people you want to emulate and learn from. The key is figuring out who is who as quickly as possible so you can ignore those who deserve to be ignored, and listen to those who deserve to be listened to.

Right on. And any group is going to have those who talk big ("just give me a call") and don't follow through on their own offer. Going in a foxhole is fine -- vets or rookies (well, not so much them) alike -- but don't preach about the value of giving/getting help but then get lost when it comes time to actually give/get it. Applies to more of us than we'd like to admit, I'm sure. Goes both ways.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have found that a lot of newer officials are not truly interested in any type of criticism, constructive or otherwise, so I mind my business until someone shows me some sort of interest in learning.

Funny, I've found the same to be true about a lot of veteran officials.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Funny, I've found the same to be true about a lot of veteran officials.

I never consider giving advice to veteran officials so I wouldn't know how receptive they are.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Funny, I've found the same to be true about a lot of veteran officials.

There will always be officials in every association of every level of experience that want and crave advice/criticism/feedback. And there will always be officials in every association of every level of experience that don't.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Funny, I've found the same to be true about a lot of veteran officials.

I would never even consider giving any advice or instruction to a veteran official unless they were at a camp or setting where they are asking for advice. Like if they attend a camp where I am a clinician or running the game. Otherwise I respect their experience and let them work their game. If they want my advice they will have to ask, much like the rookies or lesser experienced officials.

Peace

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Have you expereinced in your associations, members who feel "its all about me"? Recently, I get the vibe that many of my fellow members are very self contained worried about how much $$ they can make, level of recognition, and high profile games. While putting the association second and really not caring to groom younger officials who they might view as a future threat.

Your thoughts and experiences?

what you've described is called "ego"....don't get me wrong, ego is a good thing (too much of it - or too much of anything, really, - is not good). the ego's job is to protect us and not let us get hurt.

the ego believes that putting the association first and training younger officials will hurt an official. that's why the ego want more $, more games, better games, and more recognition.....it's only normal.

as in life, those people who have a healthy ego or are able to keep their ego under control, are usually the most successfull people.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would never even consider giving any advice or instruction to a veteran official unless they were at a camp or setting where they are asking for advice. Like if they attend a camp where I am a clinician or running the game. Otherwise I respect their experience and let them work their game. If they want my advice they will have to ask, much like the rookies or lesser experienced officials.

Peace

It's not even about giving advice or instruction when it's not asked for. It's about some veteran officials feeling like they are above criticism.

For example, last year I was working a JV game with the varsity refs watching. We had a player who slapped the backboard while (in our judgment) attempting to block a shot. The ball was in the cylinder and fell out. No call. After the game, both officials were all over us about why we didn't call basket interference. When I told them it's because that's not the rule, they both backtracked and said we should have at least called the technical. "What if the slap of the backboard wasn't intentional?" I asked. Doesn't matter, they said. When I, again, informed them that's not what the rule says, they both gave me a lecture about reffing in "the real world."

I've had several experiences like that with veteran officials who, because they are veterans, don't want to hear anything in terms of rules correction from someone who has fewer years of experience than they do.

So, like I said, I don't think it's a one-way street in terms of being accepting of criticism.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

...
So, like I said, I don't think it's a one-way street in terms of being accepting of criticism.

Maybe not, but this thread is from a newer official pondering why it seems veteran officials don't do more to help mentor younger officials.