Just a Word of Caution...
 

Received this from one assignor I work for...Just a reminder to use common sense at ALL times

Hi all,


We hope the subject line got your attention!

We have recently received reports that some officials have been changing clothes in the parking lots of the schools immediately prior to their games. We received a report this week about an official observed nearly naked by a school secretary.

You should NEVER change clothes outside of a restroom or locker room while on school property. What was witnessed would be enough to get a person charged with indecent exposure...or worse. Given some individuals' propensity for overreaction, it would not be surprising to see someone given lifetime placement on the sex offender registry.

Think this is a ridiculous exaggeration? Here's how it could be described in court: "This adult man was seen by three 8-year old girls and their moms without any clothing below the belt in an elementary school parking lot." Your life would never be the same, all because of an incredibly stupid decision you made. (Yes, the school secretary reported seeing bare buns.)

NEVER, EVER change clothes outside of a restroom or locker room while on school property. If you do not have time to change into your uniform prior to arriving on campus or in a restroom or locker room, DO NOT ACCEPT THE ASSIGNMENT.

Don't you guys provide locker rooms? Not sure why this would even need to be said. Then again again there are people that think going to games dressed is a good thing. I stand corrected.

Peace

Anyone tried this?
 

Officials locker room - Changing screen for umpires and officials in the parking lot

I've actually seen it once (baseball).

Rut - I think the example given happened in an elementary school parking lot. I doubt there are many elementary schools with locker rooms, and probably any offices there have windows.

And most windows will have blinds. and, there (almost) certainly is a nurse's office or a staff bathroom.

Or, change IN the car AND at the far end of the parking lot and look around before changing pants. OR, wear the compression shorts / underwear under your regular pants before changing to the ref pants at the site. Or, ...

They need to provide a room that has no windows. It is not totally unusual in HS that do not have a big locker room to take you to a classroom and if they have to cover the little window, they do. But this sounds like a problem created by the school, not just the officials.

BTW, in my experience I have been to many JH/middle schools and I cannot think of many that did not have a "locker room" for the officials.

Peace

I'm quite sure every elementary school has bathrooms for teachers/adults only. And sometimes they are even private, lock-the-door bathrooms.

FWIW, all the middle school games I have, I go dressed to. I'm never sure there is somewhere to change. That seems to be the norm in my area, as every partner I've had has come dressed, unless he's running in straight from work or something like that.

Thank you for this local bit of information about one junior high in your region? :confused:

That's the norm in my area too; I usually go dressed to JH games, just change shoes once I get there. I've never had the need to change in the parking lot for a basketball game though; they always give us someplace to change even if it's just an empty classroom.

I can tell you as a baseball umpire that changing in the parking lot is standard operating procedure for umpires. There is virtually never anyplace private to change. Coming to the game dressed isn't a solution either because all high school games in Iowa are doubleheaders. I guarantee you I'm not wearing the same clothes I just worked a plate game in 95 degree heat in for the second game in the field. I always do my best to park away from people and be discreet, but sometimes it's tough. That's not the umpire's fault; if the schools don't want us changing in the lot they need to provide a place to change.

Well it might be the norm, but I bet it is not expected by the assignor. I say that because a lot of guys that work those games, are working those games for a reason and their professionalism is one of those reasons. I would never come dressed to a game for so many reasons I have talked about before. They better put me in some office somewhere or I am not working the game. I am not coming out of the rain, snow or wind in my black pants that just got dirty from the outside elements. That is just not going to happen.

Jeff, I can tell you there are some middle school assigners who go to their games dressed. That said. The OP seems like a great time to press the schools for a dressing room.

So if you work JH games you're unprofessional? I work as many varsity games as I care to and I still work a small number of JH games. Why? Because they usually play on nights when varsity games aren't being played, they're easy, close to home, I'm home in time for dinner, and I get an opportunity to work with newer, less experienced officials and help them get better. Nobody around here cares if an official comes dressed to a JH game; they're just glad a competent official was willing to do it.

The Old Folks At Home ...
 

Agree.

When I get to be too old and decrepit to work high school varsity games, I hope that I'm still healthy enough to work high school freshman, and middle school games. I retire from my day job in seven years, and there are a lot of 4:00 p.m. freshman games, and 3:30 p.m. middle school games, that need to be covered.

Yes, I have used it many times (softball). It is a great alternative to changing in the parking lot hiding behind your car. And it fold down flat in your trunk.

Rut - I agree that the schools need to provide a place to change, but if they do not that does not lift the responsibility of the the officials to follow the law and/or act in a professional manner.

The reason you do not go to a game in a uniform, is the people that see you come in the court in your cloths think two things. They think you are coming from a game or you are about to go to another when you leave. Not everyone that goes and watches a game is knows all the situations in which you took the game and the first impression you give them is the one might make more decisions about you. I know officials that could not work other levels because of the professionalism they displayed when someone of significant saw them. At a JH or Middle school game, someone's kids are playing and if the right person's kids are playing or grandchildren, they might not give you a shot if they think you are not professional.

Just because everyone else does it is not a good excuse IMO. They better give me a room somewhere or I am not working. This is a choice. ;)

Peace

And as always, check local listings.

Agreed...I can't think of anyone around these parts that DON'T go to a middle school game already dressed in their uniform. In twenty + years of officiating I've NEVER seen anyone come to a middle school and ask for a changing room. Heck, our assignor is just glad to have experienced officials willing to do the games. I do, however, have my "middle school" ref shoes...usually last years H.S. model...and even wear them into the gym from outside. gasp! :eek:

...now H.S. games are a whole different story.;)

Business casual...shower after game!

You can have personal standards that do not apply to everyone. Just because there might be people in my area that show up wearing jeans, does not mean we have to do the same.

Peace

I think I speak for us all when I say: :rolleyes:

I really do not care who you speak for as you noticed I never said people should do everything others do. Successful people do what unsuccessful people are unwilling to do. You ultimately represent yourself when you work games and your professionalism, not all of us.

Peace

Like I originally posted earlier (then deleted), if doing JH games here, if the game is played at the HS you have the option of the official's locker room, at least for the next year or two. At the elementary school there are staff/adult restrooms nearby that could be used for changing.

It's my understanding looking at the JH schedule, that a few of the games will be played at the high schools, so hopefully the AD (or school representative) gives the option of using the official's locker room.

Why would they think this, unless you are obviously sweaty when you arrive?
And what if they did think this? It's unprofessional to work two places in one day? I have done this a few times, not lately. I assumed most of us had.

I'm not talking about personal standards; this statement essentially sums up the part to which I was responding:

There are some areas where if an official makes this "choice," he will be labeled high maintenance and a prima donna (sp?). Some places, you just show up and work if you want to move beyond that level.

I've worked in such an area. I eventually stopped working ms games, but it was because they paid $12.50 per game and it wasn't worth getting off work early to work three hours on a tartan floor for that rate. I just wore separate shoes, set my bag behind the scorer, and took care of the game.

Here, I'll be doing ms games for the first time in five years (schedule change), and I don't yet know how the dressing room situation looks. I imagine its closer to the high schools' situation (there's always a coach's office at least), but if it's not, I won't be doing myself any favors by taking a principled stand on this issue.

My point was, your standards may work well for you, and there are some issues where I think every official could benefit by performing and appearing above standard. For example, if the other officials at your level and shining their shoes, do it anyway. If the other officials at a level aren't all clean shaven, do it anyway. If they're all showing up in jeans or sweats; show up in business casual and stand out.

But refusing to work because you don't get a dressing room won't work for guys wanting to move up. It will only work for those who have already moved up and don't want to get stuck doing AAU and YMCA.

Coaches, players and fans do not care what you did or about to do. They only care about their game. If you look like their game is not important, they might anaylze things you did and claim you were either tired or that you were trying to get out of there to work another game. Which is the main reason I get dressed at the school and leave in clothes other than what I officiated in.

Obviously you missed the point. Of course we all do this, but they also know people that will not call fouls, will not go through procedures and just take "their" game off because they have somewhere else to go or they are tired. Just like I do not talk about where I was last night with coaches or players, I am not going to tell them where I am about to go. And in some places, levels or conferences you cannot work a game before their game or you might be fired. That does not just apply to my area for the record.

Peace

I would never work for $12.50 a game now and many people I know would not dare assign anyone for that amount. If I found out that was the pay I would stay home or never work that league again for that pay. I just had this conversation with an assignor last Sunday that said he would not dare assign a tournament/league for that $17 and advised his officials if they knew any better they would not accept that kind of fee. And his comment to the person that wanted him to assign officials to a particular tournament was, “I do not have $17 referees to assign games to.” And he was not saying he would not assign someone if they worked for that amount in the future, just saying we are worth more and he would suggest you not lower your value when you consider all the other people that are involved in getting paid for these tournaments and leagues. I do not know any JH games that are assigned for less than $30 (and that would be low) during the regular season. Actually in many cases here they have to pay almost more than a HS game just to get guys to consider working that level. I am not talking about summer league, running clock games either before you start talking about that angle of this situation.

You have to take a stand to get dressed? First of all I would not show up in my uniform or any part of my outside uniform on, so you better have some place to get dressed unless you do not mind me getting dressed in front of everyone. So they would have to provide some place for me if they do not want to have such a report complaining about how and where I get dressed.

Let us keep a couple of things in mind. This thread started about a bunch of officials that were getting dressed in the parking lot and in places that might were by the schools considered inappropriate. The law is not going to care why you are naked; they are just going to charge you with a possible crime, ticket or violation of some local ordinance regardless of the reason why. And all any of us need is the right kid, parent or school administrator to say we did something sexually inappropriate and what do you think will happen to us when that charge is made? So either they find us a place to get dressed as everyone is not coming from home or a place where they can just have their uniform on all day, you need a place to put your stuff so you are not exposed to everyone and have some privacy, even if for no other reason to have a pre-game and a place to talk about officiating without being overheard or things you say being taken out of context. This is really more than about getting dressed, this is about the things we do are much more scrutinized then the average public.


I am an independent contractor, I can work where and under whatever circumstances I wish. I do it all the time. It is clear to me that when I read this board many of you are not in that situation. You have no rights to refuse games or to decide where you want to work and when. I do and many other places do as well and I would not work leagues that expected me to be in full uniform but would not give us a locker room, coaches office or somewhere private to keep our stuff or pretty much guarantee that some young girl is authorized to walk in on a bunch of grown men that have no clothes on (this happen to me with other officials and I can tell you it did not go over very well with the assignor). If you want to be an employee and they are not paying your taxes or workmans comp, be my guest. ;)

Peace

I was't clear. I'm an indepedent contractor, and I can turn down any games I want to. That said, our assigning system is different here than yours. My metro area high school games all have the same assigner (from 1A to 5A), and the middle schools have three assigners who are all tight with the hs assigner. It's a visibility thing.

In the old area, I worked one season of ms ball at that rate; my first season in town. One JV game paid the same as three ms games, not worth it. I didn't make a big deal, I just didn't make myself available to the ms assigner. I figured the only way it would change was if guys like me refused to work.

What does that have to do with you showing up to a game in uniform? I do not understand what that has to do with the assignor unless the assignor says that is the standard. And I have not heard anything that suggests anything different than what I have said originally.

You cannot do the same in the new area? Because if you can't then how are you in independent contractor? How can someone make you work anything or make you show up in uniform or else?

I think you are missing my point if you think this is making demands. I simply said what I am going to do and that is not show up to a game in uniform. Now if they want me to work the game, they are obviously going to have to provide some situation. It is not their business to demand why I am in uniform or not. Or do not complain like the email suggested.

Peace

To answer your first point. Had I needed the exposure of working middle school games, the lack of a dressing room wouldn't have deterred me. Further, insisting on a dressing room when the association, for whatever reason, had been unable to negotiate it, would have been a quick path to nowhere. I made a choice to show up in uniform because I didn't like the option of dressing in the public restroom stall. I had a bigger issue with not having a place to retreat at half time, but even then, the real issue was the pay check.

Yes, I could do it here. But again, if a newer official has to choose between visibility/improvement and insisting on a dressing room, he's better off caving on the dressing room issue.

Further, and this is really my main point; just because it's seen as unprofessional in your neck of the woods really doesn't mean jack squat in mine (or the OP's, unless he works in your area). Hence, "check local listings."

Even in the tiniest middle school I've worked here in the northeast corner, the school has ALWAYS provided a room for basketball officials to change.

Also the case when I worked ms games in Iowa. Normally, if you ask, they'll give you a coach's office at least. I have, however, had schools where there were three options: 1, public restroom. 2, share a locker room with the home team. 3, come dressed. I chose #3 because it was what the others were doing, and it wasn't worth standing out with this issue in that city.

If I cannot talk about professionalism, then no one better not ever talk about mechanics, uniforms or how we communicate with coaches. All those things are subjected to standards that vary and philosophy. And all my professionalism standards has little to do with where I live. I feel things should be done a certain way for this thing we call officiating regardless of where it takes place. I am not going dressed to a game. Not everyone comes from a place they can change before they get to any game. It sounds like you are putting a local standard on my opinion as well. ;)

Peace

I'm not the one who claimed my opinion doesn't depend on locality.

I like doing MS games...(Well a few anyway)

* Gets me "in the mood" for the upcoming HS season.

* I get to see some of the up and coming rookies.

* I get to do a little instructing, mentoring, etc.

* My assignor likes it.

* Oh yeah...we are paid $38 dollars per game...and do two consecutive games. 2 person ;)

P.S. Just so you know I don't do it strickley for the money...I'll sometimes show up and do 3 person mechanics for free. (once or twice a year)
We do all HS games 3 person.

I said what I was going to do first and foremost. You tried to claim that I said I would not work the game, which is not exactly what I said. I actually said if that was the norm then I would not accept games at that level.

If an official does not come dressed to a game (e.g. job situations) and they want the official to work the game and not leave, they better provide somewhere for them to get dressed or they do not have the right to complain like this email suggested. And yes I have the courage to either complain or to change that policy for the reasons I stated.

Peace

I would hate to have misread you (done it before).

Let's see if I can figure out where I may have got the impression that you wouldn't work "the game."
While we're at it, I'll see if I can find a statement that indicates you're projecting your opinion onto the assigner of the OP.

Yep, as always, the misunderstanding was my fault.

There is a certain level of "professionalism" in the off-the-court stuff that we do that is appropriate for each level of game. To impose college level expectations or even HS level expectations on a MS game is the equivalent of being overly officious on the court. With MS games, they're just glad to have someone show up. They're not going to care that you came dressed. If you do a good job on the court, they're really not going to care about how you arrived.

Fortunate?
 

I have never gone to a game dressed in full uniform. Closest I will come is for a Rec Game where I might where my pants and change shoes and shirt somewhere upon arrival.

As I was coming through the ranks, I never reffed a scholastic game, that I can recall, where the school didn't provide me someplace to go - mostly an office or locker room. I've even used a bathroom, kitchen, a "private" hallway, and behind the curtain on a stage.

Snaqwells,

I did not blame you. Again one of the misunderstandings you and I will always have, I do not have to work these games, so I can set the parameters in which I work games. That will be the case even if I move, because officiating is not going to be most people's primary officiating or income. I do not feel like when I work I have to give charity to work any game. If the situations are not right, I would rather sit home than subject myself to something that is not right in my mind. And since I have been working games and know many people that are all over the country or this region of the country, I have never heard anyone suggest they could not get a locker room to work any level game other than maybe summer ball where no one has a locker room. But if the teams have a locker room, so should we.

Peace

Help me understand your point for a second. We have people here that talk all the time about what is professional and proper as it relates to the mechanics and rules and all of a sudden we get to a JH game and all that flies out the window? If I suggested for a second that you should not use proper mechanics for example because it is a JH game I would get killed for saying just that thing or if I said that we should not do those things because it is a JH game and they do not rise to the level of importance of the high school or college level. How do you think that would go over here?

BTW, in the NF mechanics book under Game Management, there is a section that tells the schools what are to be expected of them to the officials. One of them on page 83 clearly says:

"Provide a clean, private dressing room with shower or nearby shower stall. Before and after a game and at halftime, the official’s room(s) should be "out of bounds" for everyone except the few who have a definite assignment there."

All of that is said does not distinguish the level or the circumstances. Now I am not asking for all of what that book states, because in many cases we do not get a shower and frankly some have been a utility closet for lack of a better term, but it was so we could go and not be exposed to the fans or coaches after the game. If you have no place to go, that is exactly what will and has happen. And many of these schools I would not take a shower in them with a full body suit, but at least we have some place to talk or discuss situations. I am not sure how you can have a candid pre-game while on the court because anything we say can and has been misconstrued and even gotten officials in trouble (Remember the officials that were overheard when they made comments about a coach some years back?). I do not think it is asking too much to have some place that we can talk or get away from fans. If there is an assault or confrontation, not having a private place could easily be the cause of that. And it is much more likely at these games than most HS or college games where there is much more security and accountability.

Peace

You're establishing a double standard by saying you wish that game management provide the officials a place of solitude, yet have earlier stated could really not care about the selection of & training of the table officials.

Instead of just expecting the AD or authorized representative providing a place of solitude, how about politely asking if one can be provided?

In a thread about dressing accommodations for officials we somehow bring it back to something about the table...LOL!

Why should I not be surprised that you came in this thread and made it about the table in an unrelated issue? Really dude?

Peace

I was just asking for a clarification for why is there a double standard concerning the duties/responsibilities of game management.

As I highlighted in red, a simple solution is to ask for a place to change (or as I called it "a place of solitude", instead of automatically expecting a place be provided).

You still brought in the table...when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

As far as a place to change, if it's a regular season game, I expect a place to be provided before. If there isn't one, then I'll kindly ask for a place. Seems simple enough.

If you have been here long enough or were an official, you might realize that many people here claim to live by the NF Manual in every way but for some reason seem to change when the situations does not fit. Honestly I do not care what the table responsibilities are as in my state we already have standards set by them and if there are any holes the assignor sets those standards for us. Who cares what the book says about that frankly as it is not related to this topic in anyway.

Also if you were paying attention, you would have realized that what I said about showing up dressed was mainly based on what I am going to do. That would be pretty simple if you were paying attention.

Peace

Yep.

Peace

Apples and oranges. Rules and Mechanics have nothing to do with where you dress and how you arrive at the school.
Last time I checked, the NF had no jurisdiction over middle school games. Just because the middle school leagues choose to use the same game rules doesn't mean they have to do everything the HS's do.

Plus, as many (including you, IIRC, and me) have often claimed, the mechanics book is a GUIDE book. It is not the rule book. Mechanics do carry a certainly level of optionality with them. They are A way to administer the game but the game can be administered with complete legal correctness when done with modifications to the mechanics.

I only used the reference to illustrate that there is a standard. The NF has no jurisdiction over anyone anyway when it comes to mechanics or policies as to what anyone does in any sport. States use the NF guidelines if they choose to, having said that, when I first started working we were told to follow NF procedures and mechanics to the letter. My state has sense abandoned the NF Manual, but the middle schools in much of the state follow the IHSA policies and that includes having a locker room for officials. Actually I have never worked a middle school game and was not provided such a space (I worked an IESA Post Season just in the last couple of years). I will say in my immediate area this is not as much of a standard, but never had a problem getting such a place if requested when attending a game. Again, I am not showing up to any basketball game during the regular season dressed in that uniform. Not unless someone is going to do my laundry when I get to the site. ;)

As I said, I only referenced it to make a point. Also all standards officials (in any sport) are not spelled out in writing. I went to my college meeting today and many things people do are not spelled out. But I can tell you if you do not do certain things they are noticed by the very people that make the decisions. I would rather take my chance that someone in the building is probably going to notice me and expect something more than what is OK by some. I do not feel that "everyone does it" is a good excuse to do less than what is normal. It is not unusual at the middle school level to see an assignor, accomplished official, college supervisor or a big time coach to attend those games and often some individual’s behavior has been evaluated positively and negatively based on how they walk into the gym. I am just giving a suggestion; it is not my career that is going to be affected if you do not go to a game appropriately in someone's mind.

Peace

Let's just say that is the exception and not the rule.

No, let's just say it would be extremely rare that that would happen.

No, let's just say I find it hard to believe that would ever happen.

You think it is an exception that the parents that watch middle school games do not have a knowledgeable or influential parent? I am not saying it is common for the Big Ten Commissioner to show up to his son's game (which happened to many I know), I am saying that it is not uncommon a state final official or a college official might just be at a game and you had no idea they were there. ;)

Peace

The part I find hard to believe is that these "influential" people are at all concerned by the the way middle school officials are dressed when they walk in the gym.

You may find it hard to believe, but officials are regular people too. People will sometimes veteran officials what they think about another official and not knowing where they saw them. I could tell several stories where the wrong impression was given by someone working a game where someone was simply watching their kid play and it did not always start when they first saw them on the court. I hear a new story almost every camp I attend about that very thing. If you find it hard to believe, do not believe it. All it takes is one time for the right or wrong person. It might not be the issue of how they come to the game, but it might be something else. People make judgments about us the minute we walk in the gym. Not many people walk into a school with a bag or black pants and black athletic shoes. I hope you do not think we are not spotted by folks coming in the door.

Peace

Some do, some don't. Just like if someone wore a belt where I've worked, it wouldn't be considered looking professional.

I'm pretty easy to spot. The stripes are a dead giveaway. I actually don't own a bag.

This says a lot. I will leave it at that. :rolleyes:

Peace

As usual, JRut applies his standards to everyone else and they are automatically wrong if they do anything differently than he does. Then he backtracks and tries to talk his way out of it when Snaqwells quotes him. :rolleyes:

In this area, there is one school district that plays their middle school games at 3:00. Most, if not all officials go to these games already dressed. The assignor has made it clear that this is acceptable, and as long as you show up and work the game, everything is fine. These schools are just glad to have two officials show up. They, nor the parents (Influential or not) watching in the stands care about where or how the officials got dressed.

For every other MS game and certainly for every HS game, locker rooms are provided.

Edit: And by the way, I do agree with the part in the OP about schools complaining. If they refuse to provide somewhere to change, they can't complain about us dressing outside. With that said, even the middle schools I speak of above that start their games at 3:00 would find somewhere for us to dress if we wanted.

I've yet to see a school that doesn't at least have a public restroom. It might not be ideal, but at least it is not outside where you can get a sunburn.

If someone has enough time to dress in the parking lot, I would think they would have enough time to find some place inside to dress. I'd ask the head coach where this is...most of the time, it's a closed off locker room for officials, sometimes a room, coach's office...sometimes it's been just a restroom, but any of those places are better than in the parking lot. Probably one of the reasons I'd never work baseball lol :D

I guess this statement came directly from me? Oh, if you cannot read correctly, this was in the email that was referenced in very first post of this thread from an assignor not in my area.

Hmmmmmmmm, interesting. Is that not pretty much the exact statement I made previously?

I better not ever hear you tell others what to they should do, because after all that would be your standards right? :rolleyes:

Peace

i arrive at the school wearing black shorts and a black u/a shirt... locker room or not... pull on pants over shorts and shirt over u/a shirt... no issue ever.
I do bball, fball, baseball etc... in the fall I LIVE out of my trunk. one back pack for bball, one for fball, one for baseball. Black and black covers all options and or problems.

In today's world, I don't even go into the school bathroom alone. If it hasn't happened already, I foresee some kid making accusations in the bathroom that didn't happen. ( along the lines of 2 deep leadership in scouts)

In baseball we still have to be cognizant of who is around, which is why I always am prepared with undergarments so that I am not exposed. This is why often you park in a relative private place away from everyone and do not get completely naked. And I would never get dressed in a public restroom because all it takes is some kid to walk in and claim you did something inappropriate. Then again in baseball there is no locker room for anyone unless you are working the State Finals.

I was involved in a basketball game where a very tall official ran into cheerleader while rotating in the lead position and a parent tried to press charges on that official for simply doing his job. And the police wanted to talk to him immediately after the game and it took weeks to get this situation resolved so that charges were dropped and nothing ultimately took place from this. I do not know about everyone here, but if that can happen directly on the court, what do you think might happen in a bathroom where it is your word against someone else's word as to what you did and your intentions? And that issue was all based on where cheerleaders were located on the court and the GM not taking charge in a situation where he should have taken full responsibility to secure the court and the area around the court.

I do not know about anyone else, if you are accused of some kind of sexual crime here, you lose your license until the issue is completely resolved.

Peace

One issue not addressed, most discussions are refrencing HS ball... HS ball is maybe 15-20% of the ball I do.... 2cnd grade through varsity, through traveling AAU ball (better than varsity), boys /girls, adult rec, tourneys, etc..

Have yet to do a HS game without a designated place for officials. All others a crap shoot or more like "bank on no place being available". Professionalism is based on the person doing the "judging". ie old school, new school what is professional to some isn't for others. I don't play assignors politics... I get games because I am a good ref that can handle any situation. when I step on the court it is business. what I do or how I am dressed is nobody's business before or after.

I've yet to see a public school that doesn't have separate bathrooms for its faculty and staff.

Not sure it is nobody's business. Whether we like it or not this is still a business and someone is giving us games based on how we will make them look. Now you may not share the standard that is expected, but it still can and will be there whether you approve or not.

On the football board right now there is thread about a coin toss and a video linked to that thread. One of the main things that people are talking about is how the kid is dressed (hat direction) at the coin flip. It might not be there business to judge, but people will and it can affect what complaints they get. Not everything we do in life is judged on pure substance, we are judged on the packaging too.

Peace

I agree...emphasis on your coin flip scenario is ON THE FIELD/COURT. I don't think we disagree. there is acceptable and unacceptable, then there are the actual levels of standard.. ie appearance of uniform, crispness of mechanics etc... Here in KS/MO, we have a pretty high level IMO.. again I reiterate, "when I step on the court/field(since this is an officials blog, -when my responsibilities start through finish), it is all business."

I can't speak for other sports, but here, if you show up to a game dressed like that when they've provided a locker room, you'll be moving on down in schedule. You'd likely get one warning at the high school level before you found your services were no longer needed at that level.

Either arrive dressed or ask for a space to change in the school. But changing in parking lot of any school should not be part of the equation when it comes to basketball officiating.

True, but those may or may not be in the area of the school that has been opened for the game. They may be in an entirely different area that is inaccessible....lots of youth game organizers rent just the gym and the nearby hallways/access, not the entire school building and the rest may or may not be unlocked.

Unless I missed something this was not a "youth game" from the standpoint of some organization running the game. This was a middle school game which to me always means that game is being played under the jurisdiction of the school or school district and they are playing at the school or a building they control. My comments about professionalism have nothing to do with a travel league or some league that is not a school-sanctioned event. But I am sure every school has some facilities that faculty can go where the students cannot, especially in this day and age. And if that is not the case, then that should be known to those going to work games.

Peace

LMAO-Sounds like your area requires a uniform to prepare for a uniform.
"a warning" for anything Non-court related??? I'd tell the assignor "good luck with that.". You don't just get called up to 3 man varsity ball until your either ready, or requested. In my area, you are either "qualified" or not. I don't play politics with assignors. I am an independant contractor. I let my court work do my talking. Plenty of assignors, and I work for Every assignor in the area that does HS ball. We are lucky here, as Refs we have ALOT of ball, and it is a pretty small group of Varsity bball refs. 10 guys waiting for a shot for every slot. Additionally, if asked to wear business casual to HS games, I would, but our assignors wouldn't go there. Here you are wanted not needed.

Be on time, hustle, know the rules, call a good game, dress properly and act professional, throughout the competition. it really is pretty much that simple.

To me, while technically not mandated, it's a matter of first appearances and impressions. I want to appear as professional as possible the moment I step inside the building...especially if it's my first time there. It's the same reason I've been advised to have a neat appearance as it relates to hair, being clean cut or neat facial hair, etc. Technically, one could go looking like a homeless person, know the rules, hustle, and call a great game, but that person is going to start behind the eight ball the minute he steps into the building and I'm guessing will have trouble moving up the proverbial ladder.

Of course, all of that is for regular season type games. If it's a rec or summer league type deal, I'm not as concerned about what I'm wearing going to the game.

Are you saying that we can curse out the secretary at the school and you think that is going to go over well with any assignor? There is more to our job than what we do on the lines. If that was the case I could not show up to games and that should be OK if I get what you are saying.


What do you mean "I don't play the politics with assignors?" If the schools do not like the behavior or actions of the officials that are sent to their school, the assignor works for the schools not you. You are an independent contractor, but someone can decide not to use you. It is not their right to give you anything if they choose not to and they do not have to give you a reason why either. It is like going to a job interview, you think most people are going to get jobs going to that interview in jeans and a ripped t-shirt?

Being professional is more than what we do on the court.

Peace

Kstate,
So many cliches, so little time. Do can you spot the contradictions within your post?

Looking professional goes hand in hand with acting professional.

I don't arrive at a site without a collared shirt on. If it's a Saturday and I'm not coming from work wearing a shirt and tie, I'll at least put on nice shoes with my nicer jeans and a collared shirt tucked in.

MS games = youth games.

In fact, in Oregon, I don't think there are any MS that sponsor teams at all. The MS's got out of that business a LONG time ago. There are often independent operations that conduct business in connection with a school but the connection is very loose.

At least in Texas, I consider everything below 7th grade (and in Texas middle school is 6th-8th grades) as youth that's the earliest that kids are allowed to try out for school sports. Before then, it's all independent organizations.

I consider ANY less than Freshman as youth...even if it were affiliated with a school (and MS here is 7th-8th...as was also the case anywhere else I've lived....6th and below is elementary/grade school).

That's just plain stupid.

Is it high maintenance or being a prima donna to demand that the court be free of debris and water leaks? What about the baskets being properly secured? Speaking of security, what about proper security for the officials -- whatever that may be? How about demanding that the teams wear proper uniforms, the coaches abide by the rules, and the clock run on properly?

If you're satisfied with what's being offered by the school in the situation described here, that's fine. But don't criticize those who are not. A locker room demand is NOT unreasonable for basketball. Baseball, softball, and soccer may be a little different due to the location of the field, but basketball si an indoor sport where most teams have access to their own locker rooms to change. Officials should have the same courtesy.

My daughter is in 6th grade, which is middle school in Colorado. Basketball, however, is not available until 7th grade at her school. She has done swimming and (gasp) soccre, but a couple of sports are only available at 7th and 8th grade levels. It's all, essentially, intramural for the 6th graders.

Regardless, in-season ball, sponsored by schools (middle and high), is always a different animal than organizations which rent the facilities.

Either way (back to the discussion), even with school sponsored events, not all the restrooms are accessible during game nights. Some schools are able to close off everything not in the immediate vicinity of the gym, which may mean staff restrooms are locked up and off limits to the general public. That doesn't mean someone can't open one up, but you can't just walk in.

I wasn't criticizing anyone for not wanting to accept it. I was taking exception to one who criticized those who felt, for whatever reason, they had to accept the conditions as they were. Personally, I'm not in a position where I have to make that choice. When I was, I did one season of ms ball and stopped due to pay issues, but I wasn't about to criticize the officials who were working for that pay without a lockerroom to use.

My statement about a prima dona was in response to the proverbial official who shows up to a ms game demanding an office to change in when it's not part of the agreed-upon accomodations made with the association; and then refuses to work the game when his demands aren't met.

The fact is, it's something that has to be negotiated rather than demanded by individual officials.

The OP is, if the association leadership is smart, a great opportunity to discuss the issue with the schools.

I wasn't directing that part at you. It was just a general statement.

The gist of the thread was you getting on your high horse about middle school games and how anyone who goes dressed is unprofessional, when in reality there are assignors who are fine with officials going to afternoon MS games dressed.

We all know you wouldn't work MS games, and especially MS games where you might have to go dressed. They are well beneath you, we get it.

Why is it that every time a prolonged argument happens on this board, you are involved?

I did? I guess you did not read the OP or the comments about being accused of being a sex offender for what officials were doing in the parking lot. And then I guess you did not read the many other posts of people saying what they wear or would wear to games in this thread and never having worked a game at that level where they did not have a locker room provided by the school. Actually since I have been here a lot longer than you have, I think I know probably a little more of what is standard across the country. Most people's standards do not change with MS games of any kind. Actually most take exception if you treat these games lesser than a HS game in any way. How about this, stick around a little while and you might notice some things. ;)

How do you explain I worked a IESA (Illinois Elementary School Association) Regional and IESA Sectional about a year ago on back to back weekends? And I drove an hour for one of those games and about 30 good minutes to the other in rural Illinois. Wanna know what I wore to the game? I wore the very same thing I wear going to a HS games. Wanna know what my partner wore, the very same thing he wears to a HS game (he was one of my HS partners). And if you think it was jeans and a T-shirt, you would be wrong. I wore a nice shirt with a collar and dress pants and dress shoes. I shined my officiating shoes and wore the same jacket on the floor that I do when working any other HS game. We got to those games about an hour before tip off. But hey, I guess that is what you do when a game is beneath you right? Actually it is kind of hard to work any MS game when you teach a class, run an association meeting and work another sport both HS and college all during the fall. Also some of us get other levels of games than what is at the HS game. I do not know about you, but I am not turning down games that not only make more money or are closer to my house to work a MS game. But hey, you know right?

Really? I will have to keep that in mind the next time I read about 10 pages of debates over if a backcourt violation or a debate over tax returns I guess I must have been involved in those too? Actually if you were paying any damn attention you might see I hardly post in most topics as they have been done before multiple times.

Peace

Well in Illinois we have two state sanctioned bodies depending on where you are located in the state one is the IESA and in the southern part they have one that also runs a state tournament in multiple sports and crowns champions in both 7th and 8th grades. The Illinois Elementary School Association covers most of the state and a representative attends the official's conference that is held every year by the IHSA to inform officials of the differences for their sports to what is offered at the IHSA level. I do not consider that "youth" as it is more organized and you cannot work IESA games without being an IHSA licensed official. It is semantics, but these games are not like AAU or some local league where many people show up with multiple teams. IESA games in my experience are at local schools and run the same way as any HS or college game. You show up to the school, you get a locker room and you have security or someone takes you back to your locker room at halftime and after the game. And in many cases you have a shower if you choose to use one. Now in the current area I live it is a little different as there are many more MS games but not all under the same jurisdiction.

Peace

Oh yes, the old "I've been on a message board longer so I know best" routine. Who said standards change with MS games? Going to the game dressed because it starts at 3:00 and you don't have time to get there an hour early to change doesn't mean you aren't going to work as hard as you do in a HS game. In some areas, this one included, that is the way it is. The assignor will take anyone he can get to work 3:00 games, and going dressed is the standard here.

I agree that if you really want somewhere to change, they can probably find somewhere for you. But, at the schools I speak of locally, I have asked for a room before and they have told me to go in the home team's locker room.

From the first two pages of this thread:

No one said it was a good thing, but some have said it is accepted and necessary at times in some areas.

How do you know? There are multiple varsity officials in this area that work 3:00 MS games in the fall that go to these games dressed. That doesn't mean they are any less professional. The coaches at these schools don't give a damn how the officials arrive. They are just glad that two people are there to work their game.

On the second part, no one said that YOU have to go to any game dressed.

I can tell you from experience that the people who are at the 3:00 MS games here do not care if you show up dressed or not.

Again, no one said that YOU have to arrive to a game already dressed.

No one said that you do.

The reason I said that is you seem to know more about what people say here than I do. Again you have not address why most by far have said they have never worked where they were not provided a place to get dressed or why the email was given and sent to officials in the OPers area? Why do you think that was sent around in the first place?? Do you think it was sent around because it was expected for the officials to get dressed outside of a locker room? OK, you live in an area where you can come dressed, good for you. I think that is unprofessional just like I feel a lot of things are unprofessional regardless of the area like wearing a CCA jacket to one of these games or not shining shoes. If you do not agree, that is your right to not agree. But I do not have to change my standards because you do not like them. And believe it or not, there are going to be people in this thing we do that will make judgments about officials that do not jive with your personal standards. We have people here that come here all the time and complain about "politics" when I bet it is mostly they are unwilling to do something that is expected and chalk up their lack of success to politics.

Peace

Working varsity at some point does not exonerate you from acts of professionalism.

And you claim they do not give a damn but something tells me based on experience that is not totally true. A long time varsity guy and I worked a JH tournament (local) tournament some years ago for a varsity assignor and we worked two games that afternoon. We both showed up to the game not dressed in uniform and got dressed in an office or teacher's lounge. I will never forget the scorer on that game in about the first quarter of the first game said to me in an amazed voice, "You guys must be varsity officials?" I was surprised and asked her "Why do you think that?" She said, "Because you guys do everything so professionally. Most of the officials we see are so sloppy and we have to try to figure out what you they are doing. With you guys we know what your fouls are and how you deal with us is so professional." I did not even think we were doing anything special and I certainly did not tell them what we had done, but they figured it out. BTW, I also heard a positive word about our job from the assignor who appreciated our effort as the school administrators also appreciated our effort that night.

Peace

That is ridiculous. I grew up in Hawaii and its pretty easy to just use a towel to help change. Just be prepared and don't do dumb things.

And getting dressed at the site was one of the keys to all this positive feedback?

Of course not because that is expected here at all games. But the way we carried ourselves is not just what you call in the game. I know you think it is, but it is not.

Peace

Maybe you mechanics are just better than MS officials? None of that has to do with the fact that you threw a fit over people going to games dressed.

No room?
 

For you guys that go to game site dressed because there's no place to change, where do you conduct your pregame? At center court? In lobby by popcorn machine? (actually had a guy that wanted to do that one night)

I would expect it went into the overall impression.

People don't start their judgments of us when we walk on the field, court or mat and end when we walk off the playing surface. Their judgments begin with first contact and continue through the lifetime of the "relationship". I attempt to make the best impression at each point of contact. It is my belief that it is more professional to arrive and leave the contest site as inconspicuously as possible. It is impossible to not attract attention when you get out of or into your car wearing an officiating uniform.

I've always been instructed to dress for the job I want and emulate people in positions to which I aspire. I believe that to be sound advice that I use in my personal and professional life. I don't treat officiating as an avocation; it's as much a part of my professional life as my day job. I can't help but wonder when the last time a DI official in any sport showed up to a contest in uniform.

Since I seem to be out on a limb with Jeff, maybe it's a local thing... but I doubt it.

Threw a fit? Did I throw my computer across the room? Did I get upset and have the conversation with others outside of this forum?

Actually I do not give a damn what you do when it is all said and done. But I wonder when guys complain they did not get a game, they cannot get hired by a certain person or they have problems with coaches, a lot of that I am sure is the situation of how you handle all these situations we just talked about. Coaches and fans do not form opinions of us just because we show up. It is your career, go to any game you like and look anyway you like. I would not go a date, job interview or to church in a t-shirt and jeans, not going to start doing that when most coaches are not wearing those things to the very same game and that includes MS games and call myself professional.

Peace

I think nearly 100 posts on this is enough.

If you "demand" more than is normal in your area for that level, you will be viewed as high maintenance. If you do less than is normal, you will be viewed as unprofessional.

Neither is good. Both can be overcome, but it's better not to have to do so.

Getting butt neckid in a JH parking lot is never (?) a good idea.