Best way to report numbers
 

I read somewhere that we should report numbers by saying thirty-two instead of three-two (while showing the numbers), in order to eliminate confusion for the scorekeeper.

To me, that presents an equal amount of potential for confusion. Plus it sounds awkward saying "thurr" while displaying a 1, and "teen" while displaying a three.

Tonight I tried this in my junior high games..."White Thirty Two. Three-two". Only displayed the numbers when I said the "Three-Two".

Check your local listings kind of thing or is there something that works best for you?

Full number all the way

Thirty two.

A scorer doesn't look for 3-2 or 1-3 in the book. He looks for 32 or 13.

It's on page three of this season's NFHS Preseason Guide.

The NFHS instruction is to say "twenty-four," not "two-four".

Do what the people you work for and respect do.

There is no right way or wrong way really either way. I do think when you use syllable words; the table might hear the wrong thing. I have seen people say "Thirteen" and have scorers might hear the wrong number as an example and think they heard Fourteen or Fifteen.

I say each number individually and never had a problem. I have never had a supervisor care at any level. I have never been docked at a camp for saying each number. Also the CCA Manual (Men's) does not specify what to say or how to do this. The main thing is to have a strong voice and speak clearly and give the number slowly. Many officials rush through the signals which I feel is almost the most important thing we do because the number we report has many ramifications.

Peace

Murder By Numbers (The Police) ...
 

Here in my little corner of 100% IAABO Connecticut, where we use IAABO, not NFHS mechanics, we report, "Three. Two". We've been doing it that way for over thirty years. That doesn't make it right, or wrong, it's just the way we do it. "When in Rome ...".

JRutledge: I certainly agree 100% with your first statement, however I do have a slight problem with your second statement. According to Nevadaref's post, those states, and associations, that adhere to NFHS mechanics, and I realize that there are states, and associations, that don't, it appears that there is a "right way", according to the NFHS.

Yep, same folks who are afraid of coaches, so they go opposite on FTs after they call a foul. :D

Over 30 years, eh? Curious. Do you still have the T administer FTs to the FT shooter? I mean, after all, it was done that way for over 30 years. What's the point in trying a method that might be better, right? :rolleyes:

Yeah, the preseason guide was where I read it.

I didn't have any problems yesterday, but that was a small sample size. Small gym, not a lot of people, and a great table crew.

I'm at the same place tonight, so I don't anticipate any problems. For a junior high school, they have a great table crew. Better than a lot of the high schools I've worked at (at least for freshman games).

My first year or so I said "three-two". Since then I started saying "Thirty-two" and it has worked well.

The only time I mess up reporting is the one or two times a season when I report the number of the player who got fouled instead of the offender. That makes for an interesting exchange with the table crew.

A couple of years ago when I was at my first clinic, the first guy I called a foul on was number eleven. I reported it as one-one. The clinician quickly told me to always report the number, not the digits. For most numbers it probably doesn't matter, but it sure makes double numbers a lot clearer in my opinion. The table crew might stop listening after hearing the first one, and not hear the second.

For numbers like 11, 12, and the teens, I can see that. But for 22 or 32 or whatever, the scorer could get equally mixed up with hearing "twenty-two". Could hear twenty but not two.

Guess it's best to wait until you have the scorer's full and undivided attention.

And then if you say "Thirty. Three Zero" they hear "Thirty Three."

So, no matter what, there's always room for confusion.

IF there's a PA, you can listen after reporting and see if that's the same number. Since the PA is NOT the scorer, it's not perfect of course, but it's some validation that the correct number was received.

While I agree that it makes more sense to use numbers instead of digits, I don't know that this is a valid reason. If the table crew is that bad, this will be the least of your worries. And as stiffler pointed out, they're just as likely to stop listening at "twenty" as they are at "four."

There it is. It's really more about clarity than format.

When I first started, I was told to report the numeral with each digit shown. It kinda made sense, since the table only sees one number at a time when reporting with one hand. In the case of #11, I always wondered how it should be spoken as I show each digit - "e", "leven"? "elev", "ven"? Maybe say it all at once before showing the digits? Or say it after showing the digits? ...sigh...so many choices not covered by the manual... :)

Remember, this is all about communication - we are communicating to the table the number of the player charged with the foul so it can be properly recorded in the book. It doesn't matter if we say it the "proper" way, but don't speak loud enough for the table to hear. Or, I could be doing all of the "proper" mechanics, but my partners are doing it differently, and the table gets confused because of the differences. Usually the best way to communicate is through consistency, and the NFHS (or NCAA) has set up a reporting procedure so table personnel have a better chance of receiving what we are trying to communicate. But the bottom line is we still need to be able to communicate with the table.

I once had a clinician explain it this way - "When you get change back at a store do they give you two-five cents or twenty-five cents?" That cleared it up but also speaks to what people are expecting to hear, especially at the scorer's table.

As has been said, though, do as they do/expect in your part of the world and there shouldn't be an issue.

In the Introduction of the NFHS 2011-2012 Basketball Officials Manual, under heading 0.2 2011-13 Mechanics Points of Emphasas, it is stated in the third paragraph:


I am so used to hearing the full number being said when reported, unless of course the scorer is giving a deer in the headlights look.

The other thing mentioned is that when reporting a two-digit number, not to spin your hand around to report the second number.

Those Were The Days My Friend, I'd Thought They'd Never End ...
 

BktBallRef: Man, do you have a great memory. That change was made when IAABO was still using the NFHS mechanics manual, so we changed when everybody else did. I can't even remember how we did it back then. Did the trail just administer the first shot, or was it all shots?

Hey, Got Two Dimes For A Nickel ???
 

They usually just give me a quarter.

Convert!?
 

When I first started I was taught to say one-two (vice twelve). Then I went to games and training and watched the senior officials in my association and changed.

Hey, when in Rome.....

Me too.

As I was typing that I was thinking I might want to use two-three, er, twenty-three cents as an example. :rolleyes:

I'm Not Talking About The Breakfast Of Champions ...
 

If the cashier gives me twenty-three cents change, then I'm going to hitch up my belt to keep my pants from falling down. I'll check for "Wheaties" as soon as get home.

I was in VT for my first 6 seasons back. It is an IAABO state. "Thirty-two", not "three, two", was the law of the land.
Which is what we do here in FL. And is in the officiating manual.

All shots. Then we kept the shots to be taken visible. For a one-and-one, we would count with our trail finger wagging up and down. Then we had a quick up with the hand after the release so we could chop in time. Before the gap, of course.

3-2. If you say, "thirty-two", what do you say for 14? "Four-teen?" To me, that would cause more confusion than 1-4. Also, what about 00?

I have been doing 3-2 for almost 25 years and never had any table person with a problem related to that. If they didn't hear me, they weren't going to hear thirty two either.

I have to wonder if those writing these manuals saying "thirty-two" have ever actually officiated.

Intent And Purpose ...
 

IAABO manual? My IAABO manual just says to "state the color and number". Now, technically, you may be correct, three two is not a number, just two numerals, whereas thirty-two is an actual number. But is it the intent of IAABO to demand that we state an actual number, or do they leave it up to the individual boards?

I would love to get an interpretation of this "mechanic" from Peter Webb, the IAABO "international" interpreter. Last season he observed all the state finals, boys, and girls, eight games, here in Connecticut, where three two is the "law of the land". He had a lot of constructive criticism for our guys: calling outside of primary coverage areas, passing on free throw violations, hit and run reporting of fouls, not using the stop clock signal, and not visibly showing all counts that need to be visible, but he didn't mention our guys reporting the numbers incorrectly.

Totally agree. Probably not on the last comment.

Peace

I've done it both ways. For the first half of my career, I did individual digits. Bktballref then convinced me that reporting the number meant a number, not individual digits. I haven't had any significant problems with either approach. If you speak clearly and give strong signals, it probably doesn't matter which way you do it.

But just so I can say I'm following the manual, I now say "twenty-five", rather than "two-five".

Could it have been this year's NFHS Preseason Guide, page 3?

"When verbalizing a two-digit number, say the full number, not the two parts. For example, a foul on number 24 should be said, "Blue twenty-four," not Blue, two-four."

From the same Guide: "When giving a number combination like 22, give a distinct pause between the numbers so the scorer doesn't get confused."

Nuf Sed for the NFHS guidance.

Closure ...
 

Well that should certainly end this discussion for all those who follow NFHS mechanics. It should also, at least for those following NFHS mechanics, end the long history of debates we've had on this Forum over the years on this specific topic. May it rest in peace.

Now if we could only get the same closure for the few of us that follow IAABO mechanics? The manual says, "number", not numeral, yet the international interpreter allows officials that he observes to use numerals.

Man, I really hate it that we switched from NFHS mechanics to IAABO mechanics a few years ago.

Our interpreter was on the NFHS rules committee for 4 years. I would say that would be a good way to go. I went to an IAABO camp in 2007. CT guys I worked with got dinged for pointing to the floor on a 2 that was near the arc. And Peter Webb didn't want any talking guys out of the lane, either. "Thirty-two" is a number. "Three. Two." is two numbers. But, do what you are told. Just don't assume it is that law of the land. Even in IAABOLand.

Check out some of the Maine IAABO board websites. There is often commentary directly from Peter Webb on a lot of these matters. Central Maine & Eastern Maine are most likely to have this info out of the 5 boards.

I Can See Massachusetts From My Backyard ...
 

Yeah. It's not an "approved" IAABO signal. It's a "Connecticut Only" signal. Been that way for many years. I guess that we're all mavericks here in the Constitution State.

Yep, "Four-teen" while showing the 1 and then the 4.

"Double-zero" while showing first one closed-fist and then doing it again.

I use the full number when reporting - never had an issue with it.

My biggest challenge in reporting numbers is going to be switching from the volleyball version of "3" back to the basketball version......might take me part of a game.....:D:D

Stop calling 3 seconds so often, then. ;)