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Rita C Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:11pm

Point of emphasis
 
One of the points of emphasis for this season is that we are not to let the teams run around the gym on their way to their warmup side of the court.

I told another referee that this has always been a rule but now I can't find it. I went through the whole rule book last night and didn't see it.

Am I missing it or is it just my imagination?

And what would be the penalty? (Which is why I want to find the rule.)

Rita

JRutledge Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:27pm

Rita,

I do not think this is a rule, just and interpretation of existing sportsmanship rules. Just like you do not have rules that say it is illegal to pop the front of your jersey or that what actually shows disgust when complaining about a call or situation. I also think you need to follow the standard that your state says as well as they may have specific guidelines for what running around the court means or when this is over the top. We cannot even have a team run under the bench of the team they are against.

We were also told to penalize the team, not the head coach.

Peace

tref Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:29pm

Rita, Is that a State or Fed POE?
I've heard the same thing over the years. I went as far back as an 08-09 book & I dont see anything either.
I guess it could fall under an unsporting technical for taunting & baiting...

Thoughts?

dsqrddgd909 Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C (Post 794561)
One of the points of emphasis for this season is that we are not to let the teams run around the gym on their way to their warmup side of the court.

I told another referee that this has always been a rule but now I can't find it. I went through the whole rule book last night and didn't see it.

Am I missing it or is it just my imagination?

And what would be the penalty? (Which is why I want to find the rule.)

Rita

From 2010-2011 POE
2. SPORTING BEHAVIOR. Teams entering the gymnasium prior to the contest should not run through the area occupied by the opposing team or under the basket where opponents are warming up. Teams should only enter, jog and warm up on their half of the court. Gatherings intended to motivate a team after the warm-up period, during or following player introductions and post-game celebrations should be performed in the area directly in front of the team bench. If during the pre-game or half-time warm-up period one team leaves the floor, the other team may not use the entire court; teams may only warm up on their half of the court. Only authorized personnel (cheerleaders, athletic trainers, managers, administrators, etc.) should be permitted on the floor; all spectators should be in designated areas.
=================================
I guess it's preventative to avoid unsporting fouls:

4-5-ART. 2

Each team's basket for practice before the game and for the first half shall be the one farther from its team bench.


4-19-14

An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

rockyroad Tue Oct 18, 2011 02:06pm

Rita, if I remember correctly you are in Washington State...the interpretation from the WIAA is that teams doing the run around the whole court thing are to be assessed a technical foul. That is not the NFHS ruling, just the WIAA ruling. You would need to go to the WIAA website to find their interpretation.

chseagle Tue Oct 18, 2011 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 794754)
Rita, if I remember correctly you are in Washington State...the interpretation from the WIAA is that teams doing the run around the whole court thing are to be assessed a technical foul. That is not the NFHS ruling, just the WIAA ruling. You would need to go to the WIAA website to find their interpretation.

Wouldn't this be a good question for Cindy Adsit?

rockyroad Wed Oct 19, 2011 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 794773)
Wouldn't this be a good question for Cindy Adsit?

Not really, as the WIAA already issued the ruling on it two seasons ago, and then reemphasized it on the on-line coaches and on-line officials clinics last season.

chseagle Wed Oct 19, 2011 02:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 794890)
Not really, as the WIAA already issued the ruling on it two seasons ago, and then reemphasized it on the on-line coaches and on-line officials clinics last season.

Something the WIAA is lacking on is the allowing of the public to view those online rules clinics. That was originally one of my resources, until for some reason, the public versions never came to be.

bob jenkins Wed Oct 19, 2011 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 794896)
Something the WIAA is lacking on is the allowing of the public to view those online rules clinics. That was originally one of my resources, until for some reason, the public versions never came to be.

You probably ruined it for everyone.

JRutledge Wed Oct 19, 2011 03:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 794905)
You probably ruined it for everyone.

LOL!!!!

Peace

chseagle Wed Oct 19, 2011 04:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 794905)
You probably ruined it for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 794913)
LOL!!!!

Peace

The disallowing of the public being allowed to view the online rules clinics is something that I did not create.

The change was done via the state office without me doing anything.

JRutledge Wed Oct 19, 2011 05:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 794923)
The disallowing of the public being allowed to view the online rules clinics is something that I did not create.

The change was done via the state office without me doing anything.

The sad part is you do not realize that what Bob said was called sarcasm. I doubt seriously that the state would worry about what you think personally or did so just because of you.

Peace

That Guy Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 794896)
Something the WIAA is lacking on is the allowing of the public to view those online rules clinics. That was originally one of my resources, until for some reason, the public versions never came to be.

Why does the public need to see it? Officials need it. Coaches need it. The public does not.

rockyroad Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy (Post 794999)
Why does the public need to see it? Officials need it. Coaches need it. The public does not.

Who said anything about "needing" to see it? What is wrong with making an online rules clinic/tutorial available for public viewing?

chseagle Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy (Post 794999)
Why does the public need to see it? Officials need it. Coaches need it. The public does not.

To allow the general public a chance to have an understanding of the rules of the game.

JRutledge Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 795007)
To allow the general public a chance to have an understanding of the rules of the game.

They can go buy a rulebook like everyone else, those are very public. And if you made it available to them who cares if the public understands or not?

Peace

APG Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 795007)
To allow the general public a chance to have an understanding of the rules of the game.

I don't know how much that really helps in reality. The fact is 95 percent of the general public doesn't really want to know nor take the time to learn our (officials in all sports) systems, mechanics, guidelines, and interpretations.

All the major sports and levels, except for the NFL, make their official rule books available online for free and the NBA and NCAA make their case books available for free. I wouldn't say knowledge of playing rules in the other sports is any better than the NFL.

chseagle Thu Oct 20, 2011 02:07pm

I found out via contact with WIAA that in order to view the Online Rules Clinic now, I'd have to ask the AD to grant me access as a coach.

Raymond Thu Oct 20, 2011 02:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 795113)
I found out via contact with WIAA that in order to view the Online Rules Clinic now, I'd have to ask the AD to grant me access as a coach.

Won't the WIAA grant you access as an official Table Official?

Adam Thu Oct 20, 2011 03:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 795119)
Won't the WIAA officially grant you official access as an official Table Official?

fify

grunewar Thu Oct 20, 2011 03:22pm

Thanks for clearing it up for me Snaqs, I think I get it now - unofficially of course. :p

Coach Eagle?

chseagle Thu Oct 20, 2011 04:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 795119)
Won't the WIAA grant you access as an official Table Official?

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 795123)
Thanks for clearing it up for me Snaqs, I think I get it now - unofficially of course. :p

Coach Eagle?

Would be hard to grant me access as an official since there is not an organization within Washington State that trains and registers table officials.

The interest to do anything of the like is not there.

I wish there was such an organization, like there was for the game officials.

If that was to happen, you'd less likely see "snot-nosed" kids at the table.

Adam Thu Oct 20, 2011 05:46pm

Even if there was such an organization, it wouldn't matter, as no one would join and spend the time for the training for a position that is either volunteer or paid nominally. Schools are crying about a third official, they aren't likely to increase the pay for table officials enough to make it worth paying money to form and join a training organization.

There's no need, as the increased performance would be negligible at best.

grunewar Thu Oct 20, 2011 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 795142)
There's no need, as the increased performance would be negligible at best.

You're just baiting him now.......

Adam Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 795149)
You're just baiting him now.......

Nah, I think he's got me on ignore.

chseagle Fri Oct 21, 2011 01:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 795142)
Even if there was such an organization, it wouldn't matter, as no one would join and spend the time for the training for a position that is either volunteer or paid nominally. Schools are crying about a third official, they aren't likely to increase the pay for table officials enough to make it worth paying money to form and join a training organization.

There's no need, as the increased performance would be negligible at best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 795149)
You're just baiting him now.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 795169)
Nah, I think he's got me on ignore.

At least you'd know that the table officials have had some training.

Yes it's a moot point to think about, however if such an organization did exist at least the appendices of the Officials' Manual would be followed.

I don't mind volunteering at games, at least I get in for free, can get free food, and watch games without losing weight in the pocketbook.

Since I am unable to work, this gets me out of the house.

Adam Fri Oct 21, 2011 09:31am

The thing is, you're an outlier. While there would be some willing to pay to get trained for a job that doesn't pay anything, there aren't enough who are willing to make it feasible.

chseagle Fri Oct 21, 2011 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 795198)
The thing is, you're an outlier. While there would be some willing to pay to get trained for a job that doesn't pay anything, there aren't enough who are willing to make it feasible.

I have been paid before to be timer, those times have only been during playoffs.

I do it as it's something I enjoy doing, I can careless really if I am paid or not.

I would be happy to pay to have continual training, so yes I'm of the minority.

chseagle Fri Oct 28, 2011 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 795123)
Thanks for clearing it up for me Snaqs, I think I get it now - unofficially of course. :p

Coach Eagle?

Well since I passed the Online Rules Clinic, the only things I am missing to actually being a coach is First Aid/CPR Training with certification & the criminal background checks that are required.

grunewar Fri Oct 28, 2011 09:42pm

Maybe one more thing........
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 796369)
Well since I passed the Online Rules Clinic, the only things I am missing to actually being a coach is First Aid/CPR Training with certification & the criminal background checks that are required.

and maybe THE most important thing........a team who would like you to coach them!

chseagle Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 796370)
and maybe THE most important thing........a team who would like you to coach them!

LMAO, I'm not interested in coaching

bob jenkins Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 796371)
LMAO, I'm not interested in coaching

Then why post the crap about "the only thing missing for me to be a coach is ..."?


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