Center's call?

[canuckrefguy]

I've had a chance to watch a lot of of the Tourney, and I don't know if I'm seeing things, or what.

I'm seeing next to no foul calls in the paint by the Center official. I mean none. Nada. Zip. What I think I am seeing is a lot of Lead officials calling across the key.

Whatever happened to that textbook "Center Call", where a guy in the post opposite the Lead gets hacked?

Am I seeing things? Do I have my 3-man mechanics wrong?

[Nevadaref]

I noticed the same thing. I chalk it up to these mostly being older officials. They used to do it that way (call across the key) when they started back in the days of two man and they continue to do it now.
Personally, I think that it really sucks to see the Final Four officiated incorrectly. They call traveling during throw-ins, give foul-tip and clapping signals on blocked shots, point the direction on an OOB call and then point at the player it last touched (which often looks like the official is changing his call and pointing the other way), and for the most part ignore the primary areas of coverage.
Officials that are currently not working at this pinnacle cannot possibly watch these guys and aspire to be like them. They are also further propagating incorrect rules knowledge and mechanics. "Do as I say, not as I do." rings true here.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy


I'm seeing next to no foul calls in the paint by the Center official. I mean none. Nada. Zip. What I think I am seeing is a lot of Lead officials calling across the key.

I have seen the Center make many of these calls during the season and the tournament. Not quite sure what games you have seen, but I have seen many double whistles with the Center official. But the Center is only going to make so many of these calls to begin with. Their job is not to just call things in the paint, but screens and other action away from the ball or in a place where his partners might have an overload of players.

Peace

[Bart Tyson]

I've seen a lot of "on the back" calls from the L. I saw one in the Kansas game where the L had 3, count them 1,2,3 players in front of him and he called a foul on the back on the 4th player. From the camera angle (C-side) there was no way he could have seen a on the back.

[Woodee]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
I've seen a lot of "on the back" calls from the L. I saw one in the Kansas game where the L had 3, count them 1,2,3 players in front of him and he called a foul on the back on the 4th player. From the camera angle (C-side) there was no way he could have seen a on the back.

Bart,

you are going to get it. There is no such thing as on the back, or over the back. Push, Push!!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Woodee

Bart,

you are going to get it. There is no such thing as on the back, or over the back. Push, Push!!!!

Woodee,

I am sure Bart is talking about the type of call that is being made, not what the rule indicates. Many camps or clinicians talk about the L not making the "over the back" call, but saying that the C or T should be the one to get that. I think he is just refering to the teachings that many of us have had.

Peace

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
to see the Final Four officiated incorrectly. They call traveling during throw-ins, give foul-tip and clapping signals on blocked shots, point the direction on an OOB call and then point at the player it last touched (which often looks like the official is changing his call and pointing the other way), and for the most part ignore the primary areas of coverage.
Officials that are currently not working at this pinnacle cannot possibly watch these guys and aspire to be like them. They are also further propagating incorrect rules knowledge and mechanics. "Do as I say, not as I do." rings true here.

I am not working at this "pinnacle" and will probably never be but I think I and a bunch of other officials here would give just about anything to "be like these guys" Being a molecular biologist send me some of your DNA, I will clone two more of you and then every game will be officiated perfectly with the correct signals and perfect mechanics. These guys are the top 3 college basketball officials in the game this year as VOTED BY THEIR PEERS (assignors) I really don't understand your rationalle behind bashing D1 officials at every opertunity you get. Could it be jealosy???? These guys are the best in the business. end of story..... Give them the props they deserve. Again JMO

[canuckrefguy]

Boy are you out to lunch.

I wasn't "bashing" anybody, nor do I really ever take the opportunity to criticize the D1 officials. I was simply curious about some oddities I thought I was seeing, and wondering if perhaps my perception of the mechanics (that are hammered home at every evaluation and camp we attend) was wrong, or if there were other factors at play. Or if the TV perspective skewed things at all.

Your post was unbelievably condescending, insulting, and out of line.

Go soak your head.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Boy are you out to lunch.

I wasn't "bashing" anybody, nor do I really ever take the opportunity to criticize the D1 officials. I was simply curious about some oddities I thought I was seeing, and wondering if perhaps my perception of the mechanics (that are hammered home at every evaluation and camp we attend) was wrong, or if there were other factors at play. Or if the TV perspective skewed things at all.

Your post was unbelievably condescending, insulting, and out of line.

Go soak your head.

Canuckrefguy, he was not talking about you. He was addressing Nevadaref. Your question was very legit and asked in the proper spirit. And you have not come all over this board talking about D1 Officials and what they are doing wrong. Relax, relate, release!!!

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

Hmmmmmm, yeah, I see that.

I think I'll just take all that venom back, now.

(insert casual nonchalant humming and whistling here)

Sorry, MN guy.

[Bart Tyson]

This is the only game in town. I do think its good to talk about and critique the officials. This is how we learn.

[canuckrefguy]

Championship game, and several good "C" calls, including that really tough block-charge call....that could have gone either way IMHO.

I take it all back!

[Nevadaref]

As the "basher" I'll be happy to respond.
First, every criticism that I listed in that post was 100% true. All of us on this board know that we are told at camps and evaluations over and over not to do these things or use these unofficial mechanics. I think that it is totally legitimate to point out that these top dogs on TV do these exact things. They should be held accountable for it, too.
Second, you're right that these D-1 officials are the top in the game. What they are not, is above criticism or error. I will happily listen and learn from my mistakes. They should do the same.
Third, I do not believe that being selected by the assignors/ NCAA Men's Committee necessarily equates to a selection of their peers. My opinion is that this is a highly political process and that favoritism likely plays a much bigger role than merit. JMHO.
Lastly, whether true or not, my self-confidence makes me believe that I could do just as good a job, if not better, than many of these guys. I feel sorry for any official who does not believe the same about themselves. While I would give a great deal to be WHERE these guys currently are, I would not want to be LIKE them at all. I would call the game with the correct mechanics, not LIKE they do. That is my main message.
PS I was not offended at all by you expressing your opinion of my post.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Championship game, and several good "C" calls, including that really tough block-charge call....that could have gone either way IMHO.

I take it all back!

While I stand by my earlier criticisms, I am going to do what MN 3 asked. Here is me giving Gerald Boudreaux the props he deserves for that PC foul from the C. I thought McNamara was moving backwards and took it squarely in the chest. That call was 100% correct IMHO. I do not think that it could have gone the other way.
I will also say that I was very pleased to see Mr. Boudreaux selected for this game. I saw both of his earlier tournament assignments and thought that he did a great job in some very tough situations. Did I agree with every call he made? No. But he did convince me that he is a quality official with the vast majority of his calls and the way he handled the difficult situations.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Nevadaref


As the "basher" I'll be happy to respond.
First, every criticism that I listed in that post was 100% true. All of us on this board know that we are told at camps and evaluations over and over not to do these things or use these unofficial mechanics. I think that it is totally legitimate to point out that these top dogs on TV do these exact things. They should be held accountable for it, too.

I do not know if everything you said was true. That is subject to interpretation. And having been to college camps, the evaluators do not hold officials to this standard of "proper" or "non-proper" signal mechanics as you state. Actually they want you to do some specific things and I have very seldom not seen an official do what they are basically instructed to do. Also remember that each conference has differnet standards and expectations. So what might be acceptable in the Big Ten, might be completely different in the ACC.

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Second, you're right that these D-1 officials are the top in the game. What they are not, is above criticism or error. I will happily listen and learn from my mistakes. They should do the same.

True, but there is a way to do it. I personally do not think calling out officials for one mistake in one game is the way to go. But you seem to think that is professional and needs to be voiced here.

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Third, I do not believe that being selected by the assignors/ NCAA Men's Committee necessarily equates to a selection of their peers. My opinion is that this is a highly political process and that favoritism likely plays a much bigger role than merit. JMHO.

Well welcome to the real world. But I always find it interesting how others become successful they always claim it is "politics" that got them there or suggest that. It is almost never the folks that are at or near the top that claim politics.

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Lastly, whether true or not, my self-confidence makes me believe that I could do just as good a job, if not better, than many of these guys. I feel sorry for any official who does not believe the same about themselves. While I would give a great deal to be WHERE these guys currently are, I would not want to be LIKE them at all. I would call the game with the correct mechanics, not LIKE they do. That is my main message.
PS I was not offended at all by you expressing your opinion of my post.

I think anyone that is successful or aspires to be successful thinks they can do as well if not a better job. But usually these guys have several years of experience at that level they are at. You do not just fall into the National Championship game. I am just a lowly HS varsity and lower level college ref. I still in certain situations have to fight nervousness when I do a big varsity or college game that I have never done before. I can only imagine what it will be like if I do a game of that magnitude.

Peace