backcourt? from KY/MU

Nevadaref · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 29, 2003, 06:57pm

With about five minutes remaining in the first half a Kentucky player threw a pass that hit the rim and ricocheted near half court. Bogans grabbed the ball while standing near the division line. I could not tell if he stepped on it or not. If someone with TiVO or a VCR who taped the game could look at this and let us know I would be interested.
My belief is that if he did touch the line it is a backcourt violation because that was a pass not a try for goal that hit the rim.

Mark Padgett · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 29, 2003, 07:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
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My belief is that if he did touch the line it is a backcourt violation because that was a pass not a try for goal that hit the rim.

Yeah - try selling that, especially with a shot clock reset.

Nevadaref · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 29, 2003, 07:17pm

Why did the shot clock reset? This clearly was not a shot. I also have no trouble "selling" a correct call.

Mark Padgett · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 29, 2003, 11:52pm

Are you telling us that the shot clock operator didn't reset the shot clock when the ball hit the rim?

Nevadaref · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 12:44am

I don't know and I didn't tape the game, so I can't go check. Even if I had it, I doubt that the shot clock would be visible in the frame. If you see the play though, you'll agree it was a hard pass. If I were the shot clock operator, I wouldn't have reset it.

JeffTheRef · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 02:37am

and it goes into the waiting (good) hands of the big man, you say "It was a pass!", right?

Similarly, if someone throws a pass and it hits the rim, it's a shot. Not kidding. It is a shot, by the power invested in me by Zeus . . . it's gotta be in the Casebook somewhere . . .

ChuckElias · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 09:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
if someone throws a pass and it hits the rim, it's a shot.

No it's not. The rulebook is specific that the shot clock resets when a try for goal hits the rim. No kidding.

Quote:

by the power invested in me by Zeus . . .

You handle Zeus' investments? What's in his portfolio? Most people are merely "vested" with power from some governing authority.

Chuck

JeffTheRef · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 12:31pm

A try is a matter of intent, as in when a player has a power outage and catches his/her own shot. But, if the ball hits the rim . . . this is a matter for the Casebook indeed. Does it simply, automatically become a shot by virtue of having hit the rim. I seem to remember that it does. (The result overrides the inference . . .) Anybody KNOW?

BktBallRef · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 01:05pm

Yes, Chuck knows. He's already given you the answer. The shot clock resets when a shot hits the rim. It does not reset just becasue the ball hits the rim.

If you'll read below, you see a simliar post were the officials watched a replay and ruled a shot clock violation occurred even though the ball touched the rim because it was not a shot.

JeffTheRef · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 02:33pm

hits the rim as a result of loose-ballness (not a medical condition), etc., it's not a try, true enough. Hitting the rim is not automatically a shot. I am zee moron. I knew that. But there are hard cases, the alley oop is one. If someone oops it, the intended misses catching, and goes in, well, that's a goal. If it hits the basket, it's a judgement call? That's a tough one, especially when there are more and more guys flying at the basket willy-nilly all the time.

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 02:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
hits the rim as a result of loose-ballness (not a medical condition), etc., it's not a try, true enough. Hitting the rim is not automatically a shot. I am zee moron. I knew that. But there are hard cases, the alley oop is one. If someone oops it, the intended misses catching, and goes in, well, that's a goal. If it hits the basket, it's a judgement call? That's a tough one, especially when there are more and more guys flying at the basket willy-nilly all the time.

Yes, it's a judgment call. Who said that it wasn't? If a pass goes in the basket, it counts but IT STILL ISN'T A TRY. But if an alley oops pass simply hits the rim, the shot clock isn't reset. The rule is clear. And yes, it's a judgment that has to be made.

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
hits the rim as a result of loose-ballness (not a medical condition),

Is Grape Nuts a venereal disease?

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 03:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
hits the rim as a result of loose-ballness (not a medical condition),

Is Grape Nuts a venereal disease?

You couldn't just let it go, could you?

Mark Padgett · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 05:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Yes, it's a judgment call. Who said that it wasn't? If a pass goes in the basket, it counts but IT STILL ISN'T A TRY. But if an alley oops pass simply hits the rim, the shot clock isn't reset. The rule is clear. And yes, it's a judgment that has to be made.

OK - try this one. A1 jumps and throws a pass that would have gone past the rim. As he lets go of the ball, he is fouled while still in the air and the ball goes in the hoop. What would you rule?

Nevadaref · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 30, 2003, 05:28pm

By rule the ball is dead when the foul occurs. The player will only shoot free throws if the opponent is in the penalty.
That said, on the court this is really going to look like a shot. If it looks like a shot, I call it a shot and count it. We'll then shoot one.

In my post which started this thread, the pass clearly looked like a pass. It was fired on a line in the direction of the basket. And I still haven't heard from anyone, if Bogans touched the backcourt!