horrified at officials

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Kevzebra
oh, and by the way, I took a year long tax class for my masters so I know this is all legal. I could have lost money if I had claimed all my expenses!

Then you should have claimed all your expenses -- losses are allowed on a business.

Sometime you'll have to claim a profit (1 every three years?) or the IRS will consider it a hobby and not allow any of the deductions.

[Kevzebra]

I keep forgetting things. And who is to say that that I did not make some profit? There are many ways to show a loss and still profit (just ask any corporation...except Enron!) My regular job allows me to make a nice living with food and a roof, so this income is more fun than anything. As long as it pays for itself and dosen't cost me anything (well on paper!) I'm happy.

[Kevzebra]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Then you should have claimed all your expenses -- losses are allowed on a business.

Sometime you'll have to claim a profit (1 every three years?) or the IRS will consider it a hobby and not allow any of the deductions.

Did you take the same class I did? LOL I think it is 3 out of 5 now, but I could be wrong.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Kevzebra

Well, I did travel over 17,000 miles last year in my car. Take that and multiply by .36 per mile (the allowable deduction per the IRS) that totaled to over $6,400. Then there is the other allowable expenses (consult your IRS 1040 book) and a few nights in a hotel, some airfare, meals on the road (1/2 of that expenditure), shoes, uniforms...and poof...the income is gone. You have to figure if you travel 70 miles roundtrip, the deduction is $25.20. If you game fee was say $55, you have already taken a 40% deduction in the game fee. Add $4-5 for a meal, drycleaning your uniforms (about $5-7 per time) and the income dissapears rather rapidly. Camp fees and expenses during the summer also eat up a good portion of the income. Plus the hotel, mileage and food for that.

Isn't mileage only deductable if you drive from work (place of business to place of business) to a game? Sounds like you're deducting all mileage.

BTW, I report all my game income (cash too!) on schedule C and most of it does disappear due to expenses. But a while ago a tax "expert" told me that the IRS likes to see some profit eventually, that's one thing they look at distinguish a "hobby" from a "business". Comment?

Oops, just saw Bob's post on business vs hobby.

[Edited by Dan_ref on Mar 31st, 2003 at 09:03 AM]

[Kevzebra]

Well, that is the idea to get to a point of profit. But as to the deductibility of the mileage, I usually drive directly from work, so it is not an issue. Even if I did not, who's to say whether I did or did not? But the mileage is deductable if you use the vehicle for business purposes, not just if you leave from job #1 or not. It really has nothing to do with where you leave from. And even if it did, I don't think the IRS can dispute or even determine where you left from. Kind of an "honor system" thing. I am using a personal car for business purposes.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Kevzebra
But as to the deductibility of the mileage, I usually drive directly from work, so it is not an issue. Even if I did not, who's to say whether I did or did not? But the mileage is deductable if you use the vehicle for business purposes, not just if you leave from job #1 or not. It really has nothing to do with where you leave from. And even if it did, I don't think the IRS can dispute or even determine where you left from. Kind of an "honor system" thing. I am using a personal car for business purposes.

Not a Tax expert but this is what I've understood it to be....

They consider mileage to/from work NOT deductable. Only mileage between one workplace and the next is deductable. So, if you go to work in the morning, leave for your game, then go directly home afterwards, only the mileage between work and the game is deductable. However, if you swing by the office on the way home, that will make the mileage from the game back to the office also deductable. If you leave from home for the game and return home afterwards, none of it is deductable.

[rpirtle]

I officiate in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. This year we are getting $17 for AAU games. We use stop clock, NCAA Women's rules but two-man mechanics (league director's decision). For tourneys we get $22. It's paid at the end of the day by the gym administrator and is in cash.

The AAU league director has contracted with the same couple of guys for the last several years to assign officials to the games. The assigners are simply basketball officials. One works Div II & III ball. The other is an assigner for the Dallas officials chapter. These two have developed a relationship with the league director over the years. And here's the good part, out of the $17 to $22 game fee we receive, we pay the assigners a one-time $60 assignment fee at the baginning of each year to be eligible to receive games for that year.

Sounds like other areas are considerably more lucrative than ours...don'tcha just hate that!! If it weren't for all the love and gratitude we get from the moms and dads, it wouldn't be worth it...!!

As far as hustling & mechanics, I tell new officials to always hustle and use standard mechanics (to the extent you can) in recreational games just as they would in any other game during the regular season. For one thing, you NEVER know who is watching. But more important, you can develop some pretty bad habits during the spring and summer if you aren't careful. If you use your "good mechanics" for the 4 months of the regular season but your "recreational mechanics" the rest of the year (6 to 8 months for most), which mechanics are going to be more natural to you.

[Mregor]

Originally posted by rpirtle
And here's the good part, out of the $17 to $22 game fee we receive, we pay the assigners a one-time $60 assignment fee at the baginning of each year to be eligible to receive games for that year.

There are Federal Labor laws that prohibit this, Anti-Kickback Act. Of course, that doesn't apply to an independent contractor. What a crock. I have never ran into anything like that.

Mregor

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Mregor

There are Federal Labor laws that prohibit this, Anti-Kickback Act. Of course, that doesn't apply to an independent contractor. What a crock. I have never ran into anything like that.

Mregor

Do you expect assignors to put out the effort to cover all the games for free? The arrangements may be different but I'm sure assignors everywhere get a cut somehow. It may be that in your area they get paid by the schools to do the assignments. Either way, it comes out about the same. Plus this makes sure that the guys that signup for the games are serious about showing up.

[dblref]

My association deducts 10% for the assignor. Depending on the number of games I do (rec or HS), a flat fee of $60 might be a better deal. This past HS season, I only worked 3 games plus the clock on 8 games (usually double-headers) and made a grand total of $295. This was due to being out of town 2-3 weeks of every month (glad that job is over. This year, the 10% is a better deal.

[JAdams]

If you worked games on 200 days per year (a lot, wouldn't you say) and drove 17,000 miles to do it, that would mean an average of 85 miles per day round trip. I'm not sure the IRS would swallow this math. Where do you live? Alaska?

[Mark Padgett]

I keep telling you guys, check with your tax advisor regarding incorporating.