What is a dribble

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Some people say that a dribble is merely the act of pushing, batting or tapping the ball to the floor. While others say that it is not a dribble until the ball returns from bouncing off the floor back to the player's hand. Here is the scenario:

A1 has ended his dribble. A1 pushes the ball directly down to the floor. Ball bounces off the floor, but A1 does not touches the ball. What's the call?

Off of my interpretation of the rules, that's a double dribble. But I can also look at this scenario as being a bounce pass or a fumble that cannot be recovered legally (if there's such a thing as a fumble that cannot be recovered).

[APG]

I have nothing until the ball is touched again by the player as I would consider it a very bad bounce pass.

As far as the fumble, a fumble is accidental loss of player control. It's always legal to recover a fumble regardless of whether a player has their dribble remaining or not.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I have nothing until the ball is touched again as I would consider it a very bad bounce pass.

As far as the fumble, a fumble is accidental loss of player control. It's always legal to recover a fumble regardless of whether a player has their dribble remaining or not.

I was thinking since it's legal to recovered an accidental loss of the ball, then it would not be legal to recovered a purposely loss of the ball.

[APG]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

I was thinking since it's legal to recovered an accidental loss of the ball, then it would not be legal to recovered a purposely loss of the ball.

Well in your scenario, if a player did not have his dribble, purposely lost the ball and recovered it, then you'd have an illegal dribble violation. My point is there's no such thing of a fumble that one can not recover because of the very definition of a fumble.

[just another ref]

This has been debated at length before. Nearly everyone disagreed with me.
(imagine that) Read the definition of a dribble.


".....when a player pushes the ball to the floor...."

No subsequent touch is mentioned in the definition.

Situation: A1, isolated against B1, has used his dribble. There is a pause. A1 gives a head fake, then puts the ball on the floor in an attempt to drive past B1.
Before the ball is touched again by A1, B1 reaches out and swipes at the ball, knocking it out of bounds.

What is the call? Whose ball is it?

[APG]

I think most people would say OOB on B1 and Team A's ball.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This has been debated at length before. Nearly everyone disagreed with me.
(imagine that) Read the definition of a dribble.


".....when a player pushes the ball to the floor...."

No subsequent touch is mentioned in the definition.

The problem with that interpretation (as I'm sure you know from previous discussions ) is that a bounce pass also fits that definition.

A dribble and a bounce pass can both be started exactly the same way: by pushing or batting the ball to the floor. You don't know which one it is until the ball is touched again. A bounce pass is next touched by a teammate; a dribble is next touched by the dribbler.

So while there is no question that the player has pushed the ball to the floor in each case, the official doesn't know whether it's a dribble or a pass until the ball is touched again.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

A dribble and a bounce pass can both be started exactly the same way: by pushing or batting the ball to the floor. You don't know which one it is until the ball is touched again.

So, pause and judge.

There's nothing that says we need to blow the whistle the millisecond the ball hits the floor. Look at the play. If you judge an illegal dribble, tweet. If you judge a bounce pass, you have nothing.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

A dribble and a bounce pass can both be started exactly the same way: by pushing or batting the ball to the floor.

A pass and a try for goal can be started the same way. How do you know when to award two free throws? Judgment call. When there is any doubt, give the benefit to the offensive player, but the big majority of the time, it is not difficult to tell the difference between a pass and the start of a dribble.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

So, pause and judge.

There's nothing that says we need to blow the whistle the millisecond the ball hits the floor. Look at the play. If you judge an illegal whistle, tweet. If you judge a bounce pass, you have nothing.

I hear a lot of those.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I hear a lot of those.

Nice catch. Fixed. Thanks.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The problem with that interpretation (as I'm sure you know from previous discussions ) is that a bounce pass also fits that definition.

A dribble and a bounce pass can both be started exactly the same way: by pushing or batting the ball to the floor. You don't know which one it is until the ball is touched again. A bounce pass is next touched by a teammate; a dribble is next touched by the dribbler.

So while there is no question that the player has pushed the ball to the floor in each case, the official doesn't know whether it's a dribble or a pass until the ball is touched again.

The rules say: The dribble may be started by pushing, throwing, tapping or batting the ball to the playing court. It says it MAY BE STARTED, not IT SHALL BE STARTED. So from this rule alone, the act of pushing the ball down to the floor does not constitute a dribble. Does it?

[APG]

The most common and accepted application of this rule (as far as I can tell) is there needs to be a subsequent touch to determine if it's truly a dribble. I can say, I've never seen the rule applied as JAR and brainsey have suggested.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This has been debated at length before. Nearly everyone disagreed with me.
(imagine that) Read the definition of a dribble.


".....when a player pushes the ball to the floor...."

No subsequent touch is mentioned in the definition.

Situation: A1, isolated against B1, has used his dribble. There is a pause. A1 gives a head fake, then puts the ball on the floor in an attempt to drive past B1.
Before the ball is touched again by A1, B1 reaches out and swipes at the ball, knocking it out of bounds.

What is the call? Whose ball is it?

Well, that is the definition of a dribble. But the rules also mentioned that the dribble MAY BE STARTED by pushing, throwing, tapping or batting
the ball to the playing court. Since it doesn't say that "the dribble SHALL BE STARTED," I take it that it's not necessarily a double dribble if a player decides to bat the ball directly next to him for a second time, even if there isn't a teammate near him.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Well, that is the definition of a dribble. But the rules also mentioned that the dribble MAY BE STARTED by pushing, throwing, tapping or batting
the ball to the playing court. Since it doesn't say that "the dribble SHALL BE STARTED," I take it that it's not necessarily a double dribble if a player decides to bat the ball directly next to him for a second time, even if there isn't a teammate near him.

What rule are you quoting?