Jumpball question

NICK · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 04:52am

Scenario:
Jumpball on A Team frontcourt.
2PO.
A1 (6'6") against B1 (5'4")
On the toss, A1 knowing he has an advantage in height taps ball towards the basket.
B1 hits A1 arm as he jumps up.
Free official calls foul on B1.
Ball goes into basket.
What do you rule now and why?

Mregor · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 07:39am

What's 2PO? Not sure why we would have a jump ball in any place other than the center circle, but since it is not a try, the ball becomes dead when the foul is committed. Basket does not count. Foul is charged to B1. Throw-in is awarded to team A at the spot closest to the foul or we shoot bonus if appllicable.

Mregor

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 08:15am

Some people aren't playing FED or NCAA rules. They might not have an AP arrow.

Rich

DrakeM · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 09:09am

Let me throw this out for grins.

If a player is fouled while TAPPING the ball towards the basket, the penalty is the same as a foul on a shot.
What is different about a Center jump/tap?

Also, NBA rules, the goal would count if it entered the basket on a jump ball tap. Plus one FT.

ChuckElias · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 09:45am

I agree with Drake (what else is new?

), but I was thinking that the original question was regarding FIBA rules, and I have no idea abou those.

I think Mark P would tell us that the tapper gets 1.63 FTs. . .

Chuck

RecRef · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 09:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I agree with Drake (what else is new? ), but I was thinking that the original question was regarding FIBA rules, and I have no idea abou those.

Chuck

His profile says he is from New Zealand. So it is FIBA.

Nick, since most of us are in the US please preface your question as under FIBA rules.

Jurassic Referee · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 10:12am

Lemme set my "wayback machine".

Way back in olden times(as the legend goes),in a land still unpopulated by the fierce Arrow Possessions,they actually had casebook plays that covered this exact situation.It referred to a foul committed on a "tapper" during a jump ball held near the basket he was shooting at.The official had to make up his mind whether the jumper was actually tapping the ball at the basket,instead of just tipping it anywhere.If you thought that it occured during a controlled tap(at the basket,but the ball never coming to rest in the shooter's hand-which was/is a violation),you could call it a foul in the act of shooting,and award 2 FT's. If the foul occured before the tap,it was just a common foul.We had a pretty sharp Varsity coach,who taught his kids what to do if they got into a jump ball with a much taller opponent.He always had them hit the ball on the way up.His logic was that sometimes he would catch an official daydreaming and get away with it,but,at worse,the other team would get the ball OOB and he would have time to set up his defense.

Mark Padgett · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 18, 2003, 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I agree with Drake (what else is new? ), but I was thinking that the original question was regarding FIBA rules, and I have no idea abou those.

I think Mark P would tell us that the tapper gets 1.63 FTs. . .

Chuck

Actually, it's 1.6296473879373420783527, which (as you stated) is rounded off to 1.63.

NICK · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 19, 2003, 12:38am

Yes, it is a question on FIBA rules. Last year at a referees' clinic, i asked the same question and got about 3 or 4 different interpretations from about 12 officials. I just wondered what would happen if this same situation happened in your games. I know that you use the AP? for jumpballs, but I thought that I would throw this at you and see what replies I would get. Of course I have never seen this happen, but you never know.

RookieDude · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 19, 2003, 06:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
...sometimes he would catch an official daydreaming and get away with it

JR...What official is daydreaming if this violation for hitting the ball on the way up is not called? The Referee, tosser? The Umpire? Both?

I had this happen a while back...I was the Umpire, non-tosser, and saw the player hit the ball on the way up. The Coach howled about it, and he was right. The action simply caught us off guard. We didn't make a call.

I apologized to the Referee at half-time for not coming up with the call...he said he could have just as easily called it also, but it caught him sleeping to.

RD

ChuckElias · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 19, 2003, 08:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by NICK
Of course I have never seen this happen, but you never know.

You've never seen the Harlem Globetrotters on TV?

The tap-for-goal off a jump ball used to be a staple of their routine.

Chuck

ChuckElias · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 19, 2003, 08:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
JR...What official is daydreaming if this violation for hitting the ball on the way up is not called? The Referee, tosser? The Umpire? Both?

Technically, the Referee is responsible for the jumpers and the Umpire is responsible for the non-jumpers in a 2-whistle game. (In a 3-whistle NCAA game, the U1 has responsibility for the jumpers; the U2 has the non-jumpers. I don't know the HS mechanics for 3-whistle.)

But in reality, the Referee doesn't have a whistle in his mouth. So if there's a quick violation by the jumper, the Umpire is probably more likely to call it.

Just one more weakness of the 2-whistle system.

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Mar 19th, 2003 at 08:06 AM]