I ran across this on the web, all look accurate to me, I want to distribute them to my rag-tag church league, just to help them better know the game. But I don't want to pass along any false info.. anyone disagree with any of these, (we play HS Rules)

The following statements are absolutely true.
1. There is no 3-second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts.
2. There is no 3- second count during a throw-in!
3. There is no 3- second count on a player within the free throw circle and beyond the free throw line!
4. A player who is not a dribbler in control can keep a ball inbounds, go out of bounds, and return inbonds and play the ball!
5. A player can always recover his/her fumbled ball; a fumble is not a dribble, and any steps taken during recovery are not walking, regardless of progress made and/or advantage gained!
6. Steps taken during a dribble are not walking, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place (it is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble)!
7. A high dribble is always legal provided the dribbler does not turn his/her hand over when he/she dribbles!
8. An unintentionally kicked ball is never illegal, regardless of how far the ball goes and who recovers it and/or advantage gained!
9. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot or pass that is blocked and returns to the floor with it, he/she has not travelled; it is (and should always be called) a jump ball!
10. It is a jump ball (alternating possession) when the ball lodges on or in the basket support, except during a throw-in or any free-throw where the ball is not going to remain alive because of another free-throw or some other reason.
11. Striking the ball handler or shooter on his/her hand, while it holding the ball, is not a foul- no matter how noisy or how much it hurts!
12. Players do not have to "face the circle" during a jump ball! A jumper may tap the ball simultaneously; he/she may tap the ball twice, and when a legally tapped ball touches the floor the jump ball has ended, and either jumper may recover it!
13. A 10 second count continues when the defense deflects or bats the ball.
14. A "moving screen" isn't a violation unless there is contact.
15. The offensive team, when closely guarded in the midcourt, does not have to "penetrate" into the forecourt in any situation, as they get a new 5-second count each time they pass the ball!
16. Any contact foul during a live ball is personal, not technical!
17. Any unsportsmanlike contact during a dead ball is a technical foul!
18. A defensive player who has a legal guarding position has not made a foul just because "he/she moved" during a "charge or block"play!
19. When a player, in order to stop the clock, does not make a legitimate play for the ball, holds pushes or grabs away from the ball, or uses undue roughness, the foul is intentional!
20. An intentional foul always shoots 2, even if the basket is scored!
21. When an airborne shooter commits a player foul, his/her successful try for goal cannot be allowed, regardless of whether the try was released before or after the foul!
22. An official's whistle does not have to be "instantaneous" to prove a good call, because "effect upon the play" must be judged, and this may be immediate or there may be a short time lag!

20 is not true: an intentional on a three point shooter who misses is 3 shots.

9 is debatable as phrased: it is a jump only if the block prevents the airborn player from releasing the ball -- maybe that is implied in the language here and maybe it isn't.

19 is probably incorrect by rule but correct as applied: ANY TIME a player fouls to stop the clock it is an intentional foul; the situations you list are the contexts in which it is likely to be actually called

If you're going to do a list like this, I'd certainly add in that it is not a travel if you rebound an airball. You might also add in that "over the back" and "reaching" are not fouls, but then you'd also want to explain what would result in a foul.

In number 12, the jump also ends when the tapped ball touches a player other than a non-jumper or (believe it or not) a backboard.

23. There is no requirement for both teams to have the same number of fouls.
24. The line around the court is out-of-bounds... always! A player making a throw in who steps on the line is still out of bounds and has not violated.

Anyone have another to round it out to 25?

The following statements are absolutely true.

<b>1. There is no 3-second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts.</b>

The release does not end a three second count, it ends technically on a try for goal (if you decide to start it at all :) )

<b>2. There is no 3- second count during a throw-in!</b>

True

<B>3. There is no 3- second count on a player within the free throw circle and beyond the free throw line!</B>

True. These are not considered apart of the lane.


<b>4. A player who is not a dribbler in control can keep a ball inbounds, go out of bounds, and return inbonds and play the ball!</b>

Yes. That is a football logic applied to a basketball game.


<b>5. A player can always recover his/her fumbled ball; a fumble is not a dribble, and any steps taken during recovery are not walking, regardless of progress made and/or advantage gained!</b>

If you rule it to be a fumble, a player can always recover their own fumble. It can only be a violation depending on what they were doing before the fumble.


<b>6. Steps taken during a dribble are not walking, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place (it is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble)!</b>

Yes.


<b>7. A high dribble is always legal provided the dribbler does not turn his/her hand over when he/she dribbles!</b>

Well the dribble ends if they turn their hand over as you state. But a high dribble is totally legal.

<b>8. An unintentionally kicked ball is never illegal, regardless of how far the ball goes and who recovers it and/or advantage gained!</b>

Yes, a kick must be intentional to be a violation.

<b>9. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot or pass that is blocked and returns to the floor with it, he/she has not travelled; it is (and should always be called) a jump ball!</b>

Would not say that it is always a held ball, it could just be a block and nothing else.

<b>10. It is a jump ball (alternating possession) when the ball lodges on or in the basket support, except during a throw-in or any free-throw where the ball is not going to remain alive because of another free-throw or some other reason.</b>

You will have a AP situations if this takes place. But if a FT or throw in is to follow, no.

<b>11. Striking the ball handler or shooter on his/her hand, while it holding the ball, is not a foul- no matter how noisy or how much it hurts!</b>

Pretty much.

<b>12. Players do not have to "face the circle" during a jump ball! A jumper may tap the ball simultaneously; he/she may tap the ball twice, and when a legally tapped ball touches the floor the jump ball has ended, and either jumper may recover it!</b>

A jump ball also ends when it touches a non-jumper, the basket and backboard as well.

<b>13. A 10 second count continues when the defense deflects or bats the ball.</b>

Yes in thoery. But if they gain possession, the count ends.

<b>14. A "moving screen" isn't a violation unless there is contact.</b>

Well it is not a violation at all. And even if there is contact, there must be come kind of displacement or affect the defenders normal movements.

<b>15. The offensive team, when closely guarded in the midcourt, does not have to "penetrate" into the forecourt in any situation, as they get a new 5-second count each time they pass the ball!</b>

Closely guarded can only take place in the frontcourt. It can only take place if a defender is guarding within 6 feet of the player with the ball. So if they pass the ball to another player and they have no defender within 6 feet, you cannot have a count.

<b>16. Any contact foul during a live ball is personal, not technical!</b>

You can have a Flagrant Foul called during a live ball.

<b>17. Any unsportsmanlike contact during a dead ball is a technical foul!</b>

Pretty much any unsportsmanlike act is a Technical foul.

<b>18. A defensive player who has a legal guarding position has not made a foul just because "he/she moved" during a "charge or block"play!</b>

Moving is not the issue. Where they move to is the issue. If a defender is backing up, moving sideways, you cannot by rule call a foul on them. If they are moving forward, then the contact is caused by the defender. But a defender can always move to maintain legal guarding position.

<b>19. When a player, in order to stop the clock, does not make a legitimate play for the ball, holds pushes or grabs away from the ball, or uses undue roughness, the foul is intentional!</b>

In theory, but not the exact definition. And and intentional foul is not automatically based on the severity of the action.

<b>20. An intentional foul always shoots 2, even if the basket is scored!</b>

No. It could be 3 if a shoot is taken as a three point shot and missed. But every other non-shooting intentional foul is 2 shots and the ball (spot of the foul).


<b>21. When an airborne shooter commits a player foul, his/her successful try for goal cannot be allowed, regardless of whether the try was released before or after the foul!</b>

True

<b>22. An official's whistle does not have to be "instantaneous" to prove a good call, because "effect upon the play" must be judged, and this may be immediate or there may be a short time lag!</b>

Basketball Fundamental #16--The Official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

Peace

20. An intentional foul always shoots 2, even if the basket is scored!

No. It could be 3 if a shoot is taken as a three point shot and missed. But every other non-shooting intentional foul is 2 shots and the ball (spot of the foul).

If it's an intentional foul on attempt and successful, does the player get one or two shots? Thanks

Intentional fouls:

non-shooting / 2 shots and ball

shooting unsuccessfully / 2 shots and ball except 3 shots on 3 point attempt

shooting successfully / 2 shots and ball on both 2 and 3 point attempt

...unless of course the defense gets the rebound, whereupon the ball would have to cross the division line going the other way for a 3-second count to begin. :)

Is the release not the start of the try?

9.7.1 A player shall not remain for three seconds in the
lane.....while the ball is <b>in control</b> of
his/her team.......

4.12.3a Team control continues until the ball is
<b>in flight </b>during a try or tap for goal.

Release is not important.
 

Is the release not the start of the try?

9.7.1 A player shall not remain for three seconds in the
lane.....while the ball is <b>in control</b> of
his/her team.......

4.12.3a Team control continues until the ball is
<b>in flight </b>during a try or tap for goal. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well look at 9-7-3:

Allowances shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than 3 seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.

It is not about when Team Control ends, it is about what is proper to call 3 seconds. If the rules says give them allowances for a try for goal, that does not include the release of the ball. And 4-40 also states what a try for goal actually is. It is not just about the release.

Peace

Release is important
 

Well look at 9-7-3:

Allowances shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than 3 seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.

It is not about when Team Control ends, it is about what is proper to call 3 seconds. If the rules says give them allowances for a try for goal, that does not include the release of the ball. And 4-40 also states what a try for goal actually is. It is not just about the release.

Peace [/B][/QUOTE]

9-7-3 refers to when the player in the lane is the one with
the ball.
In the earlier example A1 is in the lane, but the count stops when A2 <b>releases</b> a shot.

Where does it say that?
 

You are talking about Team Control, I am talking about the application of the 3 second rule. It clearly says to give allowances for a try for goal as well as a dribble. Yes you must have Team Control to call 3 seconds, but the rulebook clearly wants allowances to be given for taking an attempt at the goal.

Now if you want to call a 3 second call while a player is in the process of shooting the ball, so be it. But I do not think that is good common sense officiating. Just like many officials want a release before they will award a shooting foul when contact is made on the ball handler. And since 9-7 is the only place I am aware of that goes into detail about the rule, nothing is stated about a release. Nothing in the Casebook talks about release either.

Peace

Where does it say what?
 

The two things are related in this case. The 3 second count ends when team control ends. Agreed? The allowance you refer to in 9-7-3 states: Allowance shall be made for
<b> a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.</b> My interpretation here is that this refers to a player in the lane with the ball. Also, if I am watching a player in the lane and the ball is on the opposite side of the court, I probably will not know if that player is about to shoot or not.

<b> The word release is not used, but in the definition of control it says team control ends when the ball is "in flight" which in my mind is the same as when it is released.

Re: Where does it say what?
 

Why do you keep bringing up Team Control? You can have Team Control and never have a 3 second count at all. If no player with the team that is in control of the ball is in the lane, it does not even matter.

So again, you have not shown me anything in the rulebook that talks about Team control in the situation that was described earlier. The original question was about not what had to take place to have a 3 second violation was "There is no 3-second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts?" All I wanted to illustrate was the release of a shot does not play a factor. And if you are calling a 3 second violation while a player is in the "act of shooting" you have not done the proper thing in my opinion. But if you see release as being a factor, then release is a factor to you. That is not how many of the officials I know called it. But if a player is just about to release the ball and you are blowing your whistle, then I do not know of many officials that would call it so tight. Not only am I talking about the rules, but I am talking about common sense. Common sense has to play apart in the application of this rule and many others.

Peace

one more try at this
 

I did not bring up team control.

Number 1 in the original post in this thread: There is no 3 second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts.

The reason there is no count here is because team control ended when "the ball is in flight," or, in other words, when it was released.


<b> In my experience, one of the most common situations for a 3 second violation is often just as a shot is released. A1 rebounds or catches a pass while in the lane. He kicks it out to A2, and turns to secure rebounding position in anticipation of a quick shot. A2 passes on the shot and swings the ball to A3. The defense rotates nicely and forces yet another pass.....or 2. Meanwhile, A1 is still right in the center of the lane, with his butt on B1, just like he has been taught since 4th grade. B's coach is getting louder, "3, 3, he's still in there!!" Just as A4 takes a jumper from the corner, 4.8 seconds after A1's original pass, there is a whistle. "A1, you got 3." A's
coach yells, "That's okay A1. A2, you dummy, shoot the ball!"*


This is the condensed version of this situation. The long version includes descriptions of facial expressions and the shouts of helpful fans.

hand is part of the ball?
 

11. Striking the ball handler or shooter on his/her hand, while it holding the ball, is not a foul- no matter how noisy or how much it hurts!

Sorry to be such a rookie here, but is this always true? Maybe I am letting baseball myths get in the way("the hand is NOT part of the bat"), but if a player slaps your hand while shooting, its not a foul? Where does your hand end? And this applies while dribbling, too?

Re: hand is part of the ball?
 

John,see NFHS rules 4-24-2 and 10-6-1(2nd sentence). Definitely not a myth.Apllies on a shot,dribbling,holding,etc.

Actually it does. The 3 second count continues until team control ends. Team control ends when the ball is in flight on the try...not when the act of shooting begins. The exception in the rule only applies to the player making a try for the goal. Any other player can be called for 3 seconds up until the ball is released.

Why does the dribble end if they turn their hand over? The dribble ends if they catch the ball. That may occur when the hand is turned over but it doesn't necessarily have to.

A flagrant foul is a personal foul when the contact occurs during a live ball.

View it the way you want to, I am not calling it while a player is attempting a shot. Whether it is the secondary player, or the player with the ball that is in jeapordy to have a 3 second violation, I am giving them a chance to complete their move. That is the way I have always interpreted it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Camron Rust

Why does the dribble end if they turn their hand over? The dribble ends if they catch the ball. That may occur when the hand is turned over but it doesn't necessarily have to.
[QUOTE]


If the ball comes to rest in their hand, you have a carry or double dribble if it is in that position.


Peace

Re: one more try at this
 

This is possibly the best explaination of a 3 second senario that I have ever heard. Thanks.

Has anyone mentioned...
 

Dual control of the ball by A1 and A2 is not a travel unless one of them actually travels (???) or how about, sliding with a loose ball is not a travel, and, if on his/her back, sitting up after the fact, is also not a travel...

I got this tidbit from Dick Cartmel,
he has officiated D1 for a number of years.
He also got to work the NCAA championship game
last year.
This is what he had to say about 3 seconds
in the key: If a player with the ball is
making a move to the basket you suspend the count
until the player ends his move,this includes
any pump fakes. Once he has passed the ball
away or he dribbles away from the lane you
get him for 3 sec.
I just want to know if you guys are calling
the game this way in H.S. or is that just
the way they call it in NCAA?
Carl

Damn! Dick must have read my post a while back and stole it! :D

I always allow pump fakes as part of the consideration given.

It is amazing.
 

I am with Tony on this one. I think the rule allows this to some extent and should be applied at all levels.

Peace

Is this consideration you refer to only when the player with the ball is the player in the lane? That's the way I understand it.

Hmmmm, really? If I ever decided that I were going to call 3-seconds (not bloody likely!), it seems to me that pump fakes (especially multiple pump fakes) are not part of a "move to the basket". Rather, the player has stopped his move and is now trying to put the defender at a greater disadvantage. It seems that if you allow a pump fake, you have to allow two, which means that you ought to allow three, which means. . . . Am I wrong about that?

Chuck

In my opinion, yes.

I agree with TH and Jeff -- allow the pump fakes, get the violation if a shot isn't taken (or call 5-seconds).

The only thing I would add to the list is to slip this one in at #4 and drop everybody else down one.

4. There is no 3- second count in the front court while the ball is in the back court.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard coaches/fans calling for a 3-second call when the ball has just crossed the mid-court line.

Very good thread.

THis is the way I call it...for the player with the ball. If another player is in the lane for more than three while all the fakes are going on, I will eventually call the 3 on that other player. They are illegally forcing the defense to divide their attention.

Disagree - only 10 rules in the game of basketball. :p


(It's good to be back!)