I'm looking for a way to call this one. I am told by my fellow officials this weekend that I can only call this as a T, in a situation where the player is receiving a pass, otherwise it is a legal play.

First off I hope you all can tell me it is not legal to hold your hand in the face of the ball handler as she dribbles, and if it is not illegal- why not?

Not to be sexist, but I have only seen this in a couple of girls games. I would probably just tell the player to stop it, but you never know when a player/coach might know the rules and object.

The unorginal Tee

Tee,It is NOT illegal to put your hands in the face of a dribbler-i.e. no call.The answer you're looking for is in NFHS rule 10-3-8d and casebook play 10.3.8SitA.

Tee,
This is a coaching problem, on both sides of the ball.
If a defender has a hand in the dribblers face, why can't the dribbler blow right by the defender? Seems real easy to me.
mick

Girl with her hand in the face of a dribbler - pretty close- not really in legal guarding postion and dirbble drives into the hands of the defender... this is now what? a fight? (striking the oppponet on the face) a flagrant foul, a flagrant tech, or a no call despite the girl getting stiff armed. I dunno - just throwing a situation out that may never happen. My rule books are in the "library" so i can't try and back up my situation for a little while.

Hold

Icing.

JR,
I used to think that this action was only a T if done to a player without the ball, since the rules book says only that. But after seeing your post, I went and closely read the casebook play. Now, due to the very last sentence in 10.3.8A I am a bit confused.
Could you clarify what you believe is unsporting for a defender to do to the opponent's vision, when that opposing player has the ball. Specifically, can the guard obstruct the vision of this player with the ball by putting his hand(s) near the opponent's eyes or is this a T?

It is only a T if a player obstructs the vision or waves their hand in the face of a non-ballhandler. (Where did I come up with that word!) I actually had that happen the first year the rule was put in. We had it at the rules meeting and boom... the second game in a girl did it. I went with a T and had to explain to the player and the coach. I see defenders holding their hands in front of the dribbler's face all of the time. Legal play under the current rule 10-8d.

Curious.
Was this rule (T for obstructing non-ballhandler's vision) put in for safety reasons? I'm having a hard time seeing this as unsporting, from my personal perspective.

SNAQS

Snaqs,
That's because of your opponents hands being in your face.

Picture a big defender behind a little guy with his hands in front of the little guys eyes.
Picture a little defender fronting and facing a big guy with his hands in front of the big guys face.
In neither case is the defender playing the ball. In both cases the defender is merely being aggravating.
This looks unsporting to me.
mick

Then why isn't it unsporting to yell in the shooter's ear when the defender's been beaten? :confused:

Chuck

Uh, ...cuz there is no rule against it?
...And it doesn't bother me. ;)

Good question. A personal pet peeve of mine. IMO, it is not a valid defensive strategy and has no place in the game. Unfortunately I don't make the rules.

Mregor

Safety? A2 without the ball, needs to see if the ball is heading inbound at full tilt, so that injury is avoided. It is unsportsmanlike to endanger another player. A1 with the ball doesn't have this concern, thus it is legal.

But it exactly fits the two criteria that you mentioned in the previous post. The defender is not playing the ball, and is merely being aggravating. So why is there a rule in one case and not in the other? That's my only point.

Chuck

For your sake I wish there was.
 

Chuck,
Maybe that action is not very wide spread.
But I think that if you deem the act to be unsporting, then you should call it unsporting in your games.
The rules allow us lots of room to make such judgments.

Go for it. What's the worst that could happen, that they stop the yelling and the coach has to sit?
mick

I think that CB play 10.3.8SitA gives you an idea about their thinking.

OK,and legal,to try and divert a player's attention.
Not OK(and unsporting) to obstruct their vision.

..uh..safety? Is the other situation unsafe?

JR,
After reading both the rulesbook and the casebook, I'm still unclear if this thinking also applies to a player with the ball.

Possibly, although that wouldn't have been my first thought. I was merely commenting that yelling fit the description that was given for waving of the hands. If "safety" is added as the real reason for the rule, then I'd have to concede that yelling is probably not a safety issue. It still bugs me tho. :)

Chuck

After reading this thread, I see potential for a valuable supplement to all rule books.

"THINGS THAT DO AND DON'T BOTHER MICK!"


:)

Nevada,I think that it must.Rule 10-3-8d specifically refers to it applying only to an "opponent not in control of the ball". The casebook question asks if it is an unsporting act to do it to a player with the ball.The answer is "no",followed by the explanation.

I don't think that they would ever use the language that they did if there was a situation where they wanted a T called for a defender waving their hands in the face of someone who had the ball.

Chuck-

Here's my theory -- and I'm guessimg -- on why this rule was put in. Imagine defending the post from behind by pputting hand in front of the eyes. This would be a rather effective strategy, if legal, as the whole point of posting up is to set up in a position and NOT move away from the defender. It would also lead to a lot of pushing and aggravation that has nothing to with the game. My guess is that is why the rule came into effect, as it is difficult to effectively put a hand to block the vision of a non-ballhandler outside of the post.

JR and others,
I am pressing this a bit because of a situation that I had last year.

Here's the play: The offensive player stops her dribble at the free throw line. She turns her back to the defender and is looking to pass to a teammate. The defender is now standing behind the offensive player, who is holding the ball. The defender reaches around the offensive player's head with both arms in a bear hug motion and covers the eyes of the offensive player by overlapping her hands maybe an inch in front of her face. No contact is made at all, and no attempt is made to play the ball.
Is this legal or is it a T?

Nevadaref,
If offense pivots and gets hit by the hands or arms, you are ready to make that call.
This is not a rules problem; it's a coaching problem.
mick

Agree with mick.There's gonna be a touch (personal)foul called in a hurry on this one.I guess you could call a T under the "includes,but not limited to" part of the definition if you really wanted to call it an "unsporting act",but the described act is not one of the examples listed in the rulebook.If the hands are that close to the face,there pretty well has to be some slight contact somewhere that you can quickly call a personal on.That should get the idea across(along with a few well chosen words,maybe).

Push or hand cneck?

Hand check is (generally) only used for a dribbler.

Push (if offense is displaced) or hold (if offense is prevented from moving -- more likely in this instance, imho).

Probably "hold" or "illegal use of hands".