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-   -   Intentional or Not (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/77156-intentional-not.html)

APG Sun Aug 07, 2011 01:00pm
Intentional or Not
 
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Pdb3vFSfKvU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You throwing up the X or not?

Camron Rust Sun Aug 07, 2011 01:16pm
I'm OK with the intentional.

If he had made the same swipe and not held on to drag him down, probably not.

NCHSAA Sun Aug 07, 2011 01:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 778639)
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Pdb3vFSfKvU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You throwing up the X or not?
This is a tough angle. That is probably why the C offered his judgement as he closed down since the L had a common foul. The angle from C could have been better since contact was on that side.

BillyMac Sun Aug 07, 2011 01:25pm
Intentional Foul ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 778649)
I'm OK with the intentional. If he had made the same swipe and not held on to drag him down, probably not.
Agree. From my side of the court, it looked like the defender "hooked" the ball handler across the upper arm, and dragged him down.

AllPurposeGamer: Can you get us the video from the hot single Mom with the camera on the other side of the court?

JRutledge Sun Aug 07, 2011 02:42pm
I could be OK with either call. Without seeing a better angle I cannot say the IF was bad and I can see why nothing more was called but a common foul.

Peace

Brick43 Sun Aug 07, 2011 02:47pm
Slo mo is going to ruin my career. Full speed I have no intentional. It looks like he made a play at the ball and attempted to hold up the player. Then slo-mo it looks worse and I change my mind. I wonder what other decisions in my life I would reconsider if I slowed down the tape? Where's that wedding footage.....?

APG Sun Aug 07, 2011 03:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick43 (Post 778668)
Slo mo is going to ruin my career. Full speed I have no intentional. It looks like he made a play at the ball and attempted to hold up the player. Then slo-mo it looks worse and I change my mind. I wonder what other decisions in my life I would reconsider if I slowed down the tape? Where's that wedding footage.....?
Slow motion tends to have that effect...making incidents appear worse than they really were.

JRutledge Sun Aug 07, 2011 03:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick43 (Post 778668)
Slo mo is going to ruin my career. Full speed I have no intentional. It looks like he made a play at the ball and attempted to hold up the player. Then slo-mo it looks worse and I change my mind. I wonder what other decisions in my life I would reconsider if I slowed down the tape? Where's that wedding footage.....?
Use it for what it is worth. Players will make contact in this game and sometimes will look like this. I would just need to see clearer what the other arm was doing and I would feel more confident calling an IF.

Peace

just another ref Sun Aug 07, 2011 04:29pm
I see this as a play which matches the first line of the definition of an IF.

"personal.......foul which neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position."

The swipe at the ball was an afterthought after the mugging.


As I describe this kind of play to myself: He had no chance to do anything but foul................and he knew it.

BktBallRef Sun Aug 07, 2011 05:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 778684)
I see this as a play which matches the first line of the definition of an IF.

"personal.......foul which neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position."

The swipe at the ball was an afterthought after the mugging.


As I describe this kind of play to myself: He had no chance to do anything but foul................and he knew it.
Agreed. There's no attempt to play the ball here. He comes across the upper right arm and pulls him down with his right hand.

And I'd bet the C is telling him he had a left hand full of jersey as well.

bainsey Sun Aug 07, 2011 06:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 778717)
And I'd bet the C is telling him he had a left hand full of jersey as well.
Looks like both hands to me. I say make the X. The defender was playing the body completely.

tref Sun Aug 07, 2011 06:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 778684)
I see this as a play which matches the first line of the definition of an IF.

"personal.......foul which neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position."

The swipe at the ball was an afterthought after the mugging.


As I describe this kind of play to myself: He had no chance to do anything but foul................and he knew it.
My thoughts exactly... boy, are the commentators some homers!

JugglingReferee Sun Aug 07, 2011 07:32pm
X all the way. No need to see it on replay or in slow motion.

mbyron Sun Aug 07, 2011 07:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 778670)
Slow motion tends to have that effect...making incidents appear worse than they really were.
Agree. In football we say that slo-mo makes everything look like a foul.

I also agree that this is an intentional foul. Easy call, even in real time.

bowlingref Sun Aug 07, 2011 09:25pm
If you let that go, then the next one will only be worse. The IF gets the players attention.


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