Is this a basketball site or what? Find another site to express your opinions about freedom, war, etc...

Red Neck Ref, it is the venue in which she chose to protest that makes this worthy of discussion here. If Toni chose any other place other than a basketball game to protest then we would not be discussing it.

BTW I guess that makes her pretty smart, because everybody is talking about it now...even here on this site. So what if she turns her back on the flag at a protest march with 100 other people, but when she does it during the National Anthem at her D3 basketball game everybody hears about it because it stands out. She got our attention.

I don't agree with her protest and would never do it myself, but I guess she has the freedom to put down the symbol of the government that grants her that freedom.... We have to recognize that the freedoms we enjoy also apply to those with which we dissagree.

The land of the free....yes....but not really
 

Toni Smith has every right to turn her back on the flag. In a country as "free" as ours she has the right to paint a picture of Saddam and worship him if she sees fit. But then again there are some people who don't think Toni should be able to turn her back on the flag....well guess what people thats the definition of free. For all those who disagree....great. But for those who disagree and think that Toni should "move to Iraq or North Korea" or be punished in some way, you idiots should move to Iraq or North Korea or some place where they dictate what you do. Because thats just what you're trying to do, dictate.
Afterall, it's just a flag people. And now you are thinking yeah but people died for the flag, my father blah blah blah....my grand father blah blah blah......no they didn't die for the flag. They died because our government and the governments of other countries decided to go to war and the people of this country got drafted. Get it out of your heads that this flag represents freedom because it doesn't it represents the United States of America and yeah we say we're free, but look closer.

PZ

Its Ironic that people that fought in the Vietnam war are so against Toni Smith, that war is universally considerd wrong these days.
People keep saying she has the right to express her opinion that she has a right to free speech, thats true she does, but beyond that what Toni Smith is expressing what she is saying is not being heard. Toni Smiths message is a great one this country overlooks everything it took to become what we are, clearly the greatest nation on this planet. But in order to become great our Amercan ancestors killed, lied, cheated, those things are crimes and stains on that flag but the greater crime is trying to forget these injustices instead of making them right to the best of our ability.
Our President is against things like affirmative action a pitance of what blacks are owed in this country(oh boy did I say owed), But this is a man who sent more blacks to the chair than any politician ever, thats a fact and what does it say about really making this country great.
I wouldnt want to live in any other country on the globe but we need to remember what it took to get here. And lets not think that our milatary is so naive as to not know that we have major skeletons in the closet, when they fight for this nation they fight for the good and bad in our history.

"Are your children fighting?"
Rut,
As a matter of fact one is....He was deployed on the 15th
of Febuary. I am a retired vet and now work for the DOD,
Last year I was deployed and will probably go again.
Notice I never said anything about right or wrong, I just pointed out that those who wish to express this right the most will probably be the first in line to give up that right if it actually had to be defended thru conflict.
So go ahead say what you want to say, afterall that right
was bought and payed for by someone else...enjoy it while
it is available.
Nightstalkers Don't Quit!

no one should have to fight to express dissent. In fact, in any other nation in the world most have this right without having to listen to a sea of weepy, preachy veterans (not all, of course) and elders who say that "people have fought and died for that flag". In brief, in a less warlike and violent nation the accusation that one must have fought in the armed forces to voice dissent would be completely disregarded.
Sure, people have fought and died for that flag. That was THEIR choice. But ours, mine and apparently that of Toni Smith and those like her, is to remain living. To live in a democracy is not the action of lazy beings, it is not the realm of spoiled, opinion bloated ignorants.
Civilians have every right, just as much as those in the military, to voice any dissent that they might have with their govt.
And since the flag has long represented oppression and imperialism for most living abroad, objecting to it is a good starting point for voicing such dissent.

[Edited by radiofreeusa on Mar 2nd, 2003 at 12:21 PM]

This is the most ridiculous thing that i have ever heard. If we weren't always fighting for our interests we wouldn't have to defend this "freedom" of which you speak.

Most living abroad??? Ask all the people of all the countries we have fought to defend and liberate if they feel this way. The news shows only protesters abroad. You won't see news stories interviewing the average person on how they feel about the help the US has given to hundreds of million people all over the globe.

Maybe we can appreciate this country more if we try to visualize what the world would be like today if we didn't have the foreign policy that we do have. Instead of Euro Disney, the French would be visiting Euro Hitler, for starters.

It's kind of interesting that we've got 3 brand new posters -- illy, brooklynite, and radiofree -- who show up simultaneously, have almost empty profiles, post in only one thread, and all think the U.S. sucks. I have no idea what that means, if anything, it's just curious. http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/conf.gif

Euro Hitler?

that's rich.

I think if you ask most people who have been "liberated and freed" by the invading US military they would say what G.Washington and company would have said, that it is better to fight for your own freedom than owe it to a coke swilling, gas-guzzling giant thousands of miles away.

Better to have one tyrant on the block than three thousand in the neighboring city...

I thought the same thing Chuck. That is why I am ignoring their comments. :)
No real discussion, just someone looking for a reaction.

that's odd. i haven't attacked a single post on the site. Apparently disagreement isn't well tolerated here.

OOPS!

that's what you call an attack?
when you use your background and experience to attack those without it simply to defend your idea it is much worse than saying that something is "ridiculous"

Well,if you maybe hadda commented on a basketball post sometime,we might actually think that you were interested in officiating-instead of just being a troll wandering through.That goes for the other two trolls who came out of the ether,too.