on Saturday during a JV Tournament team A shot and made the basket-the net got tied up in the basket after the shot went through--while B was taking the ball up court with no pressure from A at all i noticed the net- blew my whistle and fixed the net-gave ball back to B and the game
proceeded--I was being evaluated during this game--after the game all comments were very positive except that i was told the net should not have been fixed until there was a dead ball from a violation or OB. This means A may have gone back down and played at the basket with the net tied up in the basket- This just does not seem right
any comments?

Could you have been a little quicker on fixing the net. Sounds like some time went by before the net was fixed. The way I see it the trail should have that call immediately.

I doubt that two seconds even went by before i noticed it-trail did not because he turned his back to run downcourt-very young official-he will get better

I am not at home so I do not have access to my files but I will try to shed some light on net problem.

Over 35 years ago the National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada (NBCUSC) issued an interpretation that stated that when the net became caught in ring, the game was to continue without interruption. When there was a natural stoppage of play: foul, violation, team timeout, or injury, the net should then be fixed.

Since the NBCUSC was the legal predecessor to the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's rules committees, this ruling was still in effect. I do not the time to go through my files, but a few years ago I sent a email to Mary Struckhoff (NFHS), Ed Bilik (NCAA Men's), Barb Jacobs (NCAA Women's) in response to questions submitted to me concerning the net problem.

Since I had only information from officials more veteran than me concerning the NBCUSC ruling, I requested in my email that an archive search be done concerning this ruling. The only response that I received was from Barb Jacobs, telling me that the NCAA Men's/Women's Committee was in the process of issuing a ruling on the net problem. I cannot rememeber off hand which year it was, but it detailed how to handle the net problem at the NCAA Div. I, II, and III games. In a nutshell, for a NCAA game, game management is supposed to provide a person to fix the net so the game does not have to be stopped. If no person is provided the ruling lists a protocol on how to handle the situation.

I have yet to receive a response from Mary Struckhoff, so it is safe to say that the NBCUSC ruling is still in effect for games played under NFHS rules. Having said that, something in the dark recesses of my mind tells me that the NFHS may have issued a ruling on the net problem.

I'd say that with an inexperienced official then you have to have four eyes. I think you did the right thing if you corrected it as quickly as possible...IMHO...I dont think that evaluation will do much in the way of holding you back either...

Thats Trails Call!!

I found the NCAA Memorandum that address the net problem. It is dated January 11, 2000.

For NCAA games, here is how it is to be handled:

Net caught on rim after a made basket: How to handle:

If there is a basket attendant supplied by game management, that person can get the net down as play continues to the other end of the court. If play stays at this basket's end (press situation) officials should blow the whistle immediately and get the net down. There would be a possibility of a quick steal and a shot at the basket with the net hung up.

If there is no basket attendant, officials should stop play immediately and get the net down.

If this is a re-occurring situation through the game, game management should be notified by the officials to change the net either at half time or after the game.

Dang is there an echo in here...=)

Game management on the court is very important as well as preventive officiating. Placing myself on the court I would have blown my whistle with confidence and signaling to stop the clock (open hand) then pointing to the net then requesting the ball so that I can use to bring down the net. I then would have administered the throw in at the baseline signaling that they can run the baseline. You just covered all angles and sold your delay.

[Edited by BlackFox40 on Feb 24th, 2003 at 05:40 PM]

My personal opinion is that the flipped net NEVER actually interferes with the ball going into the basket. Therefore, I will NEVER blow my whistle during a live ball to fix the net. It will fix itself the next time that team scores. For other (that means "incorrect" ;) ) opinions, go to another thread on the this very topic. http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...?threadid=7092

I believe it certainly can have an impact on the shot.

I've seen nets hung in such a way that a ball could not go through and would actually get bounced back out because the net is stuck fairly tight.

Also, a soft shot that is rolling around the rim and rolls over the flipped net will be affected by the net. The bump that the net causes may change the direction of the ball from causing the outcome of the shot to change.

We can never know when it happens where the shot would or wouldn't have gone anyway.

When it's stuck, stop play and fix it. Ideally, it should be immediately after the ball drops through.

I just agreed with you in another thread. But. . . :eek:

In 25 of being involved in organized basketball (playing, coaching and officiating), I have literally NEVER seen a shot affected by a flipped up net during a game. Ever. Do not stop the clock to fix the net. Ever.

Chuck

I too agreed with Camron on the last one and Chuck ,I have to agree with him again.
n 41 years of reffing I have seen this happen at all levels and sometimes the ball is adversely effected by a hung up net. If the ball rolls out in at the buzzer in the 3rd OT of the State Final then what would you do??? Mark DeNucci's interpretation is bang on.

Interesting that the topic is being discussed because on the weekend I watched the provincial finals where the net must have gotten caught a dozen times per game. It was whistled every time. Around here, we always stop to fix the net, I assumed that was the correct procedure. I am starting to doubt myself now.

This past weekend I was asked to run the clock and scoreboard for my son's games. In the particular gym they were playing the net got tied up up everytime there was a swish. It got irritating because the officials stopped play each and every time. I wish I would have read this thread before then because I would have suggested they get some attendants to take care of the problem while play was on the opposite end.

Chuck, my sentiments are with you on this subject, but as I posted earlier, the NCAA mandates differently now. But the following is what JR posted in the thread that you have also listed:

"In the old days(20/30 years go),this situation was covered in the casebook/approved rulings and officials manual for both NCAA and NFHS.We were told that we could only have the net flipped down when the clock was stopped and the ball was dead.If a ballboy or player wanted to grab it while play was going on,that was fine-but we were not to stop the game to flip a net down. I don't have a clue when they removed this reference or why.Personally,I agree with Chuck.It's a game interupter if you stop the game just to get the net down."

JR is correct when he states it is a game interupter. I personally care for the NCAA ruling but for college games it is the law of the land.

Head to the locker room. If it rolls out, it's not b/c of the net.

I agree.

But since the ball becomes dead when the shot that makes the net flip up goes through the basket, you always stop it then. Good game management waiting for the dead ball. :)

I know not everyone is capable of this, but when this happens, and there is no press going back the other way, I just jump up as I'm passing by, flick the net so it comes back down, and continue on my merry way. If it's tangled, I wait until the next stoppage to fix it.

Definitely do not stop the clock for it, anyway.

I agree with Chuck that the net is not going to flip a ball out, but I think the impact it has is on a shooter who is looking at a different target. When I'm playing, if my offensive net is flipped, I'll pull it down as I pass through the key.

This topic can become a severely beaten horse, but I haven't seen anyone put 'current' rules into the pot.

How about 1-10-1. Each basket shall consist of.... ...suspended from beneath the ring.

Suspended - verb. To hang so as to allow free movement.

Should you not allow play to continue, as you would with other improper equipment. I.E. If after a dunk, a collapsable ring did not spring back to parallel, you would definitely not let play continue.

I also don't like having an unnecessary interruption in the game but it can be argued by rule that it should be taken care of.

You just wait young man. One time during a lower level game, the net got stuck on a shot as the quarter ended. I figured I'd just jump up and pull it down. Alas, I had last tried that during my playing days, at least 3 years prior. Long story short, I came up about three inches short and embarrassed myself thoroughly.

But as to the original post...... the ball is dead once it goes through and I don't know how the trail could miss seeing that the net is stuck. Blow it dead before the ball is "available" to the throwing team.

Z

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Long story short, I came up about three inches short and embarrassed myself thoroughly.

D'OH ! ! ! !

Maybe not a bad idea to blow it down right after the ball goes through, depending on the flow of the game. But if no one notices, and the ball's already back in play, definitely still would not stop it until the next stoppage.

You jinxed it. You're gonna see it tomorrow, now.

Brian, I've got boys' playoff games tonight and tomorrow. I'll let you know if anything untoward happens. ;)

We had another thread with this issue, but I will restate.
1) has an impact on the target viewed by shooter
2) may affect rebounds
3) does not comply with rule on equipment

Conclusion: fix it

Hawks: I agree w/ your three points here totally. I think most of us should understand that all of the three above are true. What I am really looking for is some supporting info (FED rules wise) on when to fix it. Be this the next dead ball, officials discresion, immediately etc...)

First, the shooter is looking at a different target if there is no net there, yes. This ties into #3. More importantly I do not see anyone who can not say that there is a possibility that a hung net can affect a shot as a ball hitting the rim w/ the net wrapped around it would obviously react differently as would a "rim rolling" shot. I personally have never viewed a net being wrapped up so tightly that the ball would not pass through but would hate to be the official who allowed it to happen and then had to explain to the other coach why that basket their player should have just made did not count.

Again, I have had a hung net a couple of times this year in my games. If it happens more then once the solution is simple. A pair of scissors or tape cutter which each team should have and a couple of cuts on to bottom knots on the backboard side of the net.

[Edited by MN 3 Sport Ref on Feb 25th, 2003 at 04:01 PM]

I think I have said it before. I have seen it! The net flipped up over the top of the rim so far that the back side of the net caught on one of the frontside hooks as it flipped over. Essentially, the net was pulled across the diameter of the rim from back to front, no ball could get more than 3-4 inches below the rim level before the net would be pulled tight and flip it out. Found this out not during play, luckily, becasue it was whistled dead. Upon trying to toss the ball up through, it promptly rejected the attempt. The net was only cleared by climbing up to the rim and unhooking the net from the loops.

Besides the "elastic" powers of the referee does anyone have any RULE SUPPORT for stopping the game to "fix" the net in these situations. I just play and let the team shooting at that particular basket take care of their problem if they want to. They can have a player stay and pull it down. Why would you stop the game with the other team in possession and break any flow or momentum they might be creating?

Originally posted by ChuckElias
My personal opinion is that the flipped net NEVER actually interferes with the ball going into the basket. Therefore, I will NEVER blow my whistle during a live ball to fix the net. It will fix itself the next time that team scores. For other (that means "incorrect" ) opinions, go to another thread on the this very topic.



Cameron: I think Chuck would say you are seeing things.... ;)