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-   -   T or ignore?.... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/76184-t-ignore.html)

JRutledge Sat Jul 30, 2011 08:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 776466)
I'm not explaining calls/no-calls to AC's. I'll tell him where the ball is being put in play, what his player did on a travel, what his player did on an illegal screen call, etc. But I'm not explaining to an AC why I didn't make a call.

If the HC is not saying anything, I am certainly not saying anything to the AC. I get that some do not like that approach, but I have enough to do and to answer to with a coach, I am not listening to 5 people and getting 5 different conversations. I am having one conversation and if the HC has something to say, then he should do that and not the AC. Also timeouts are different in anyway. A conversation during a timeout better be non-confrontational and better be so they can get information. The minute that turns to what I must do or explain then the conversation is over, whether that is AC or the HC. And the reality is the experienced coaches know this anyway and this is not a problem. It is usually the ignorant coaches that either do not have the experience that this is a problem.

Peace

Adam Sat Jul 30, 2011 09:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 776468)
Definitely HTBT, but I can't see how a T here makes the game better. With only 14 seconds, if (and that's a big "if" with so little time left) I can say to the head coach, "Hey Coach, you don't really want him to take a T now, do you?" I might. But a T here might actually make things worse by waking up the Head Coach.

As described, I agree with not giving a T.

Just because a T won't make the game better doesn't mean it shouldn't be called, IMO. With 14 seconds left, the only thing that's going to actually make the game better is to let 14 seconds run off the clock; but I think this T needs to be called. Even if it only makes the next game better.

If the behavior is borderline, I can see using the "will it make the game better" criteria. But an AC making the announcement in the OP? That's not borderline for an AC. For an HC? Maybe borderline, but not an AC.

Camron Rust Sun Jul 31, 2011 01:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 776466)
I'm not explaining calls/no-calls to AC's. I'll tell him where the ball is being put in play, what his player did on a travel, what his player did on an illegal screen call, etc. But I'm not explaining to an AC why I didn't make a call.

If you explain one type of decision, why not the other?

If asked appropriately, respectfully and at the right time, I have no problem answering a question from an assistant.

Raymond Sun Jul 31, 2011 02:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 776624)
If you explain one type of decision, why not the other?

If asked appropriately, respectfully and at the right time, I have no problem answering a question from an assistant.

I'll give information, but I am not explaining anything to an AC. There is a difference between 'answering a question' and 'explaining a call/no-call'. And I made that clear in my original post.

stir22 Sun Jul 31, 2011 04:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLydic (Post 776399)
You're right coach, unfortunately I had to work this one ...


Classic!!!! Well-played.

JRutledge Sun Jul 31, 2011 06:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 776629)
I'll give information, but I am not explaining anything to an AC. There is a difference between 'answering a question' and 'explaining a call/no-call'. And I made that clear in my original post.

Big difference.

Peace

vbzebra Sun Jul 31, 2011 06:35am

all great information everyone, thanks!

back at it for two games there this afternoon. Lesson learned :D

Scrapper1 Sun Jul 31, 2011 06:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776582)
With 14 seconds left, the only thing that's going to actually make the game better is to let 14 seconds run off the clock;

Bingo. Let it run. If you T the assistant at that point of that game (game is over, coach is taking it like a man and just wants to be done), there's a good chance you'll end up T'ing the head coach, too. Just doesn't seem worth it to me.

tref Sun Jul 31, 2011 08:41am

Had the AC been put in his place when the questioning started during the timeout, perhaps he would've known that he wasn't dealing with summer refs & the EOG sitch may not have occurred. Once they think you're inexperienced they really try you! Had he been dealt with earlier a T with 1 second left is justified. Please tell me that in the OP he didn't walk onto the floor seeking an answer.

Sitting behind a bench last season, I hear an AC telling the staff, "leave those two alone, but we got that one." Speaking about one of the officials who answered every question from anybody on the bench. Boy did they work him all nite!!
That particular official is of the mindset... I'll answer questions from those who ask in a respectful manner.
Coaching staffs know the communication guidelines & when we stray, it can make for a long nite.

Adam Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 776668)
Bingo. Let it run. If you T the assistant at that point of that game (game is over, coach is taking it like a man and just wants to be done), there's a good chance you'll end up T'ing the head coach, too. Just doesn't seem worth it to me.

My point is, no T is going to make the game better with 14 seconds left. Do you swallow the whistle on all of them for that reason? Of course not. If it's a borderline call, I can see using that as a factor, but if A1 screams, "Aren't you going to call a foul?" with 14 seconds left, aren't you going to call that? If an HC says it, no big deal. If an AC yells it for the gym to hear; I just don't think I can ignore that.

Adam Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 776683)
Had the AC been put in his place when the questioning started during the timeout, perhaps he would've known that he wasn't dealing with summer refs & the EOG sitch may not have occurred. Once they think you're inexperienced they really try you! Had he been dealt with earlier a T with 1 second left is justified. Please tell me that in the OP he didn't walk onto the floor seeking an answer.

Sitting behind a bench last season, I hear an AC telling the staff, "leave those two alone, but we got that one." Speaking about one of the officials who answered every question from anybody on the bench. Boy did they work him all nite!!
That particular official is of the mindset... I'll answer questions from those who ask in a respectful manner.
Coaching staffs know the communication guidelines & when we stray, it can make for a long nite.

Must make a difference in how you answer, cause I've never had that problem. Aside from that, I don't answer enough questions that they'll get that impression. One, maybe two. I've never had to go beyond that, but there would quickly come a time when I'd approach the HC and inform him that he will need to be the one communicating with us.

I just don't see it as a big deal during timeouts. Liveball? No way I'm acknowledging an AC. Too many headaches. With a max of 12 TOs (including quarter breaks), I've never had to answer more than 1 or 2 AC questions during a given game.

bob jenkins Sun Jul 31, 2011 06:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbzebra (Post 776362)
summer game...team B assistant asks for an explanation of a non call during a timeout. i give it, he disagrees (nothing crazy, just disagrees, ok coach). ...

Let me amend my earlier answer -- if he asks "what happened there so I can teachmy players?" that's one thing. If he says "wtf was that? you've got to have something there" then it's another.

Each fits the OP "asks for an explanation."

vbzebra Sun Jul 31, 2011 07:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 776788)
Let me amend my earlier answer -- if he asks "what happened there so I can teachmy players?" that's one thing. If he says "wtf was that? you've got to have something there" then it's another.

Each fits the OP "asks for an explanation."

sorry...to specificially quote.....2nd half, t/o red...i'm tableside calling and reporting T.O. in front of red bench. I report, then hear from AC (actually politely), "can you explain to me why that wasn't a backcourt violation?".

i explained, he disagreed, 'ok coach' (by me) and I walked away. didn't hear anymore til around :14 to go and counting.....

Adam Sun Jul 31, 2011 08:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbzebra (Post 776802)
sorry...to specificially quote.....2nd half, t/o red...i'm tableside calling and reporting T.O. in front of red bench. I report, then hear from AC (actually politely), "can you explain to me why that wasn't a backcourt violation?".

i explained, he disagreed, 'ok coach' (by me) and I walked away. didn't hear anymore til around :14 to go and counting.....

I'm not answering jeapordy questions. All he's doing is giving you advice in the form of a question, that doesn't qualify, IMO.

bainsey Sun Jul 31, 2011 09:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 776582)
Just because a T won't make the game better doesn't mean it shouldn't be called, IMO. With 14 seconds left, the only thing that's going to actually make the game better is to let 14 seconds run off the clock; but I think this T needs to be called. Even if it only makes the next game better.

+1

Sometimes, we send an unitended message when we choose to ignore. The message inferred could be that one can get away with statements like the AC made.

I agree with Snaqs. If you T him up today, there will be less liklihood of someone else having to deal with it in the future.


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