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Old Sat Feb 22, 2003, 03:27pm
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I saw this in a varsity game last night and I don't have my rule book in front of me. So could someone please advise/remind me of the correct ruling in this situation?

Jump ball between Team A and Team B. Team A has the arrow. Team A takes the ball out of bounds on the baseline in their backcourt. It is a designated spot for the throw-in. Team A inbounder receives the ball from the referee and moves off the designated spot resulting in a violation. It is now Team B's basketball. But, does Team B also get the arrow? Or does the arrow stay with Team A? I think I remember something about fouls by the offense/defense not changing the arrow, but I really don't remember. Please advise.
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Old Sat Feb 22, 2003, 03:30pm
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It's now B's arrow, if I remember correctly
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Old Sat Feb 22, 2003, 06:20pm
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Unless I'm mistaken, this is the only situation where you can lose the ball AND the arrow...
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Old Sat Feb 22, 2003, 06:47pm
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The only time the arrow DOESN'T change is on a foul by either team before the throw-in is completed. A violation by the throw-in team does change the arrow, and, of course, the team on defense can't violate. If the defense catches the inbounds pass, the arrow does change.
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Old Sun Feb 23, 2003, 06:36am
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Arrow changes only on throw-in violations

Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
The only time the arrow DOESN'T change is on a foul by either team before the throw-in is completed. A violation by the throw-in team does change the arrow, and, of course, the team on defense can't violate. If the defense catches the inbounds pass, the arrow does change.
Technically, it's only a throw-in violation that causes the team to lose the arrow. A violation that is not a throw-in violation would result in no change of arrow. (NCAA Rule 6-3.2. The direction of the alternating-possession arrow shall be reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in shall end when the throw-in ends (Rule 4-64.5) or when the throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.)

So if A1 is the thrower-in and releases the ball into the court and the first thing that happens is B1 intentionally kicks the ball, I think we'd have a violation with no change of arrow, because in NCAA Rule 4-64.5 it tells us that the throw-in doesn't end until "the passed ball touches or is legally touched by an inbounds player other than the thrower-in." (Bad English here---it should probably say "legally touches or is touched.")

What if the first touch on the court is by someone who has a foot on an out of bounds line? Does that count as a legal touch? I think so, since in NCAA Rule 9-4.1 we're told that "[t]he thrower-in shall not...[f]ail to pass the ball directly into the playing court so that after it crosses the boundary line, it touches or is touched by another player (in bounds or out of bounds) on the playing court before going out of bounds." (They really should put the word "legally" in here to make it jibe with the statement in Rule 4.)

Can someone with a Fed rulebook let us know if things are the same or different?

Can anyone else come up with a violation that can happen before the throw-in ends that is not a throw-in violation? (Excessive elbow swinging without contact? Nah, that'd never happen...)
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Old Sun Feb 23, 2003, 08:01pm
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Thrower in A places ball over end line B ties it up for a jump ball--arrow and ball stay with A since throw in never ended-i think this is a bad rule but the rule
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