Had a HS ballgame this past Friday night in what has become one of the feature tournaments in our area. Always great fan turn out, on local TV etc. The match up was two of the higher ranked teams, one from our area of the state one from another section of the state. Myself and partner are both college officials and I feel well respected among our peers and coaches. Here's the situation. Game goes triple overtime! Fans are rocking, TV and radio announcers are rocking, just a great, great ballgame. Three secs left in the third OT and ...tweet..we have a shooting foul on a drive to the basket for the local team. Makes both FT's game over. Now, the next morning as VP for our local board, I get to go to our sectional meeting to pick up the playoff brackets and also pick up each schools list of preferred officals and non-preferred officials. Guess what? The coach of the visiting team from last night who is representing one of the sections, makes a comment to several people how her kids were homered last night. Her opinion, oh well, but now I take a look at her non-preferred list of officials and guess what? Two names that were on the list are now scratched off and my partner and me are now on it! I really could care less, but it just gauls me that we busted our a%# for the kids, gave them a fair game and the bottom line is that a coach loses sight that the game is for the kids, not her power trip. Thanks I feel better.

This is exactly the reason that coaches should not have input into who will work post season.

I was lucky enough to be doing a 8th grade boys game for one school on Friday night and the same school's 6th grade boys game on Saturday.

Friday night, the coach came after my partner and I because "we cost him the game"...notice we did not cost his TEAM or his KIDS the game...we cost HIM the game. Here's the situation....

4 secs left, his team has the ball in the front court. His kid drives the lane, gets grabbed. We call it. Not in the act of shooting. Not in the bonus. They have the ball on the side with .2 left, they lose. The kid told his coach he wasn't shooting but his coach was convinced he was shooting and he should be given two shots. The kid threw the ball at the hoop when he heard the whistle. Oh well...

The next day....two towns away, different coach/team....

The sixth grade team loses 35-34. The coach comes up to me (working alone) and says to me, "You see the score?! We lost by 1 and it was YOUR fault." He went up one side of me and down the other side, swearing, berating, and screaming at me in front of his team. I asked him, "which of the seven straight ft's did I miss? Which of the four missed lay ups in the second half were MY fault? Which of the three times did I dribble the ball off of my foot?" His contention was that I should I have seen a lane violation on the front end of a one and one. The shot went, so did the second. I was watching the rim and making sure no one clobbered anyone else. Their feet were not my main concern. Should they have been? Perhaps, but his team was also stepping in all game and I let it go. I also told him if I had called it, I would have had the other coach in my face. I called what I saw (as I have been told so often on this board!) but it lost him the game.

Any ideas on what to do in this situation in the future? I couldn't leave because I had another game in that gym right after it was over.

I echo Ron's comments.

I've recently (4 months) learned that in my area, coaches have dictated who is not able to officiate certain levels of ball.

It's apalling.

Mike

First Rule of Sports Officiating: Coaches are idiots and jerks.

Second Rule of Sports Officiating: See the First Rule of Sports Officiating.

dsturdy5,

Depending on the level of support from the league, (If you get any) I would right a letter to the league.

Too bad his team wasn't ahead by one at the end of regulation. You could have "T'd" (because you hadn't left the visual confines of the court) his butt and sent an opposing player to the line to potentially win the game..........:)

Remember there is a reason he/she is a 6th grade coach.

"Stupid is as stupid does"

Harsh Words
 

Easy on Mark. I've known my share of jerks, and some of them are coaches. Some are officials. But most jerks don't care enough about kids to be involved with them at all. I don't expect a loving relationship between coaches and officials, but if you are not going to show coaches some respect how on earth can you expect it back?

Some coaches are idiots and jerks.IMO,the greater majority aren't.

dsturdy5...

Disgusting. Apalling. Unacceptable.

These are 11 YEAR OLD CHILDREN. Follow it up, document everything, and don't stop until that coach is held accountable for his actions. His putrid behaviour (right in front of the kids) cannot go unchallenged.

Meantime, maybe MTD can amend his legislation to read "Coaches are sometimes idiots and jerks."

That kind of stuff still really pis**s me off, though.

Yeah. Stare at his pants then puke on his shoes. :p

You could blow your whistle as loud as possible right in his face and T his scrawny rear-end up! :D

May not make a difference in the game, but I work a rec league where a coach has to sit out one game if he gets 3 technicals in a season (and one game for every T after the third).

Kinda harsh, but they behave.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk...e/pukeface.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/puke.gif

NCAAREF ~

Some coaches are going to act like that. If you're in it long enough, you'll get black-balled somewhere. I'm not sure that it will ever change.

The good news is that the good, level headed coaches seem to have a way to straighten things out in the long run. Generally speaking, the better officials seem to rise to the top. I have yet to see a good official move directly to a high position in an organization for a long period without a few setbacks along the way. Keep your chin up and continue to work hard, and, as they say, this too will pass.

Blackhawk

Mark, this ain't necessarily so. Take a look at the posts by some of the coaches who frequent this board -- for the most part, they know the rules and they make good comments. I have watched 1 of them coach and he did a heck of a job.

Amen. And I'll go one step further. This is exactly the reason that coaches shouldn't have input to ratings for the regular season either.

Z

Pick your poison
 

Do you want officals that have a vested interest in their own careers making these decisions or do you want coaches that have a vested interest in the outcome making those decisions? Seems to me one is not necessarily better than the other.

Peace

what process is in place to ensure that coaches who scratch somebody have a valid claim? What about asking the opposing coach or coaches for their input when a coach puts in a scratch? Does not sound like it but I do not know? What input does the board have to counter the scratch?

thanks for any info.

Re: Pick your poison
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Do you want officals that have a vested interest in their own careers making these decisions or do you want coaches that have a vested interest in the outcome making those decisions? Seems to me one is not necessarily better than the other. Peace

No system is perfect. I think most officials would rather take the chance of a peer stab-in-the-back than getting scratched by a coach who is caught up in the emotion of a game(s). Besides, most officials already have a real career and officiating is just a passion. Coaching is often a career. In all my years of compiling official's ratings, I've only seen one obvious instance of peer stabbing. It was addressed and that ref stepped down shortly thereafter.

Z

Even if you couldn't leave the gym, wasn't there any way you could have at least stayed across the court from him? Try to stay away from the losing coach right after a game at all costs.

No system is perfect.
 

Do not misunderstand the point. No system is going to be perfect.

My state hires the playoff officials thru the IHSA Office. And even with that, there are many complaints from the rank and file about who gets them and who does not. I personally like our system much better than leaving it up to fellow officials that hire officials to work the playoffs based on how well they know you and how well they do not.

Peace

I know that I went over the top with my posting, but if you ever have the "pleasure" of officiating in NW Ohio or SE Michigan you would understand my post.

Ronald
 

The system here is a little different from most of the others that I see on the board. We have an organization of approximately 135 officials that contract with the Sections to provide officials. The section has 4 leagues and about 85 schools. Per our state contract, because the schools are subcontracting us the officials, basically paying for our services, they have the right to pick and choose who they hire. Makes sense to some point. What happens come playoff time is each school submits two lists of ten officials. One is a preferred list and one is a non preferred list. If school A is playing school B you try and give them both their number 1 preferred official providing that he or she is not on the others non-preferred list. If those two officials are already working, you go to number two and so on. It's not perfect. We still get preferred names of folks who haven't officiated in years, schools who don't submit anything, and new coaches who have only seen a handful of officials during the year. It's been a source of debate ever since I got into officiating 16 years ago. Bottom line is we tell our officials "Don't take it personally." It's the way the system works and until we can come up with another system that the coaches, AD's and assignors agree to we're stuck with it.

Possible responses:

"Thanks, Coach -- you guys played well." (say it sincerely, as if you think he's given you a compliment.)

"That was my partner's call. I'll discuss it with him / her."

"Excuse me while I get a paper and pen. I want to be sure I get all this down for the report I need to write."

Bob,
I think he was working alone in that game. It would be tough to blame it on his partner!

In reference to coaches rating officials, I think most coaches do a pretty good job, but I would prefer to have my peers rate me for post season assignments. At least they have a clue to what makes a good official. They aren't emotionally involved in the evaluation.

Re: Pick your poison
 

No, I'd rather have paid observers that are not officials in my association, so they don't have a vested interest in the rankings of officials.

Hey, wait. Isn't that the process Seattle has? ;)

If a coach comes after you after a game, get away from him. I don't care where you have to go, get away from him. If you can't possibly do it, warn him that he can still be ejected. If he keeps it up, run him. Either way report the incident. But don't stand there and explain yourself. It doesn't work.

That's the point of the statement. I wouldn't use it if I had a partner in that game.

YU.P.
Warped.

Although, you could blame it on your partner, who didn't show up to help you out, so you had to make do with what you had. :) Tell him to live with it.

I was taken to task for the above post. Tonight my mother's alma mater (Kansas Univ.) defeated Iowa State in Lawerence. The ISU coach (Larry Eustachy) was ejected for arguing a call (a charging foul against an ISU player) that he didn't know had been to a traveling call.

I rest my case.

For every coach that is a jerk there are three more out there who will actually give you a nod after a game they've lost, if they feel you've done a good job. Unfortunately, the jerks seem to have a more lasting effect on our psyche.

Anyway, where I come from coaches have no official input into who does which games. Of course, most Assignors will unofficially seek input from coaches from time to time, so when the time comes for Assc's to pick officials for playoffs and the Championship Tournaments.

It blows me away that in so many U.S. States, it's the AD's and coaches that seem to do a lot of the assigning.

Was every coach in every game ejected to-night?

I rest my case.

I agree with J.R. You were "taken to task" for the blanket statement that ....coaches are idiots and jerks. You know from reading the posts from the coaches that frequent here, this statement simply isn't true. Some of them are, maybe even most of them, but not all. My association has about a dozen varsity officials (male & female) that are "idiots and jerks", but they are a definite minority.

One of our coaches that was really hard on officials is a D1 men's official himself. He is very competitive (and quite a good coach) and also has a standard of officiating that will never be met in girls ball HS and below - you are dealing with a different group of officials there than in NCAA.

But even his understanding of the game and of the nature of the job does not make him any easier on officials (though I believe he has gotten much better in the past year or so). This means that coaches can be jerks, officials can be jerks, and officials can be jerks as coaches. It really is an individual thing.

I will gladly amend my rule to read that the "vast majority of coaches are idiots and jerks." I have learned a long time ago that coaches are not the friends of officials. Coaches have a different agenda that officials do. Coaches care who wins and loses and offficials do NOT care who wins and loses. Officiate in areas where the coaches have complete control over who officiates and who does not officiate and one will see how crazy coaches are and how poor the overall quality of officiating is because officials worry only about getting games and votes for tournament time. This is the case in NW Ohio and SE Michigan. I rest my case.

Mark...

I think you should ammend your post to read that the "vast majority of coaches in SE Michigan and NW Ohio are jerks" if that is where you work.

I average about 350 to 400 basketball games a year. Not only do I officiate H.S. games in those two areas I officate in youth tournaments in Ohio, Michigan, Connecticut, North Carolina and AAU and YBOA Nationals in Florida. Over the course of a year I see just about every type of coach possible. I am not saying that there are not some nice coaches out there. But too many of them are not nice.

Personally,Mark,I usually think that a coach is OK until they actually prove otherwise.I've never believed in going into a game with any preconceptions.

Jurassic..

I feel the same way about the officials that do our games. They are good in my book 'till they prove otherwise.

MTD
I am truly sorry for you if your experience everywhere is that coaches are generally bad. Coaches are all biased - we are supposed to be and freely admit it. Every coach, myself included, will dispute some calls, though I have many games where I have nothing that I feel needs to be contested. And we are not there to be your friends, we're there to coach a game with the intent of winning that game. That is our purpose, that and teaching a few lessons to our players along the way.

That said, I think it is a personal issue for you if you really find the majority of coaches to be difficult everywhere you go. I coach a travelling team, see lots of basketball on this coast, and that is NOT my experience. I also grew up in Illinois and have watched coaches there for years, continue to see games there every couple of years, and don't see a serious problem.

Bottom line - your blanket indictment of coaches (later modified to a near blanket indictment of coaches) tells me more about you than about the coaches in the games you ref. And I feel for you and those coaches, because your lack of respect for coaches can only have a negative impact on the games you ref. We are not supposed to be friends, we are not supposed to agree on everything, but we are not supposed to be adversaries either. At times you will find that you are at odds with a coach because of extreme behavior on his/her part. But if you find such situations occur in the majority of your games, you have some serious issues. And they are your issues, not the coaches' issues.

On NCAAREF's initial post
 

My thoughts on coaches that act in the manner that this coach did is that such coaches are idiots. They are so wrapped up in their desire to win that they ignore what you actually accomplished. If you are on top of your game, I want you in every one of my games. I don't care about one call nearly as much as how you did in the game as a whole.

If you can handle a tense, close game, and handle it well, I want you in any major contest we have so that I can be sure my players will have the best chance to decide the game themselves. By blackballing you, I could get handed a pair of officials that may have handed me a game earlier in the year with bad calls, and now could take it away if the calls go the other way. I have never beieved that HS refs are biased toward one program or another, so just give me the best I can get and lets lace up and play.