Vindictive Coaches - Page 2

JRutledge · #16 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 17, 2003, 08:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Pilo
This is exactly the reason that coaches should not have input into who will work post season.

Do you want officals that have a vested interest in their own careers making these decisions or do you want coaches that have a vested interest in the outcome making those decisions? Seems to me one is not necessarily better than the other.

Peace

ronald · #17 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 17, 2003, 09:00pm

what process is in place to ensure that coaches who scratch somebody have a valid claim? What about asking the opposing coach or coaches for their input when a coach puts in a scratch? Does not sound like it but I do not know? What input does the board have to counter the scratch?

thanks for any info.

zebraman · #18 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 17, 2003, 10:53pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Do you want officals that have a vested interest in their own careers making these decisions or do you want coaches that have a vested interest in the outcome making those decisions? Seems to me one is not necessarily better than the other.
Peace

No system is perfect. I think most officials would rather take the chance of a peer stab-in-the-back than getting scratched by a coach who is caught up in the emotion of a game(s). Besides, most officials already have a real career and officiating is just a passion. Coaching is often a career. In all my years of compiling official's ratings, I've only seen one obvious instance of peer stabbing. It was addressed and that ref stepped down shortly thereafter.

Z

just another ref · #19 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 01:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by dsturdy5
"You see the score?! We lost by 1 and it was YOUR fault."
Any ideas on what to do in this situation in the future? I couldn't leave because I had another game in that gym right after it was over.

Even if you couldn't leave the gym, wasn't there any way you could have at least stayed across the court from him? Try to stay away from the losing coach right after a game at all costs.

JRutledge · #20 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 01:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

No system is perfect. I think most officials would rather take the chance of a peer stab-in-the-back than getting scratched by a coach who is caught up in the emotion of a game(s). Besides, most officials already have a real career and officiating is just a passion. Coaching is often a career. In all my years of compiling official's ratings, I've only seen one obvious instance of peer stabbing. It was addressed and that ref stepped down shortly thereafter.

Z

Do not misunderstand the point. No system is going to be perfect.

My state hires the playoff officials thru the IHSA Office. And even with that, there are many complaints from the rank and file about who gets them and who does not. I personally like our system much better than leaving it up to fellow officials that hire officials to work the playoffs based on how well they know you and how well they do not.

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #21 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 01:42am

I know that I went over the top with my posting, but if you ever have the "pleasure" of officiating in NW Ohio or SE Michigan you would understand my post.

NCAAREF · #22 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 08:46am

The system here is a little different from most of the others that I see on the board. We have an organization of approximately 135 officials that contract with the Sections to provide officials. The section has 4 leagues and about 85 schools. Per our state contract, because the schools are subcontracting us the officials, basically paying for our services, they have the right to pick and choose who they hire. Makes sense to some point. What happens come playoff time is each school submits two lists of ten officials. One is a preferred list and one is a non preferred list. If school A is playing school B you try and give them both their number 1 preferred official providing that he or she is not on the others non-preferred list. If those two officials are already working, you go to number two and so on. It's not perfect. We still get preferred names of folks who haven't officiated in years, schools who don't submit anything, and new coaches who have only seen a handful of officials during the year. It's been a source of debate ever since I got into officiating 16 years ago. Bottom line is we tell our officials "Don't take it personally." It's the way the system works and until we can come up with another system that the coaches, AD's and assignors agree to we're stuck with it.

bob jenkins · #23 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 09:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by dsturdy5
The next day....two towns away, different coach/team....

The sixth grade team loses 35-34. The coach comes up to me (working alone) and says to me, "You see the score?! We lost by 1 and it was YOUR fault."

Possible responses:

"Thanks, Coach -- you guys played well." (say it sincerely, as if you think he's given you a compliment.)

"That was my partner's call. I'll discuss it with him / her."

"Excuse me while I get a paper and pen. I want to be sure I get all this down for the report I need to write."

BigJoe · #24 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 10:32am

Bob,
I think he was working alone in that game. It would be tough to blame it on his partner!

In reference to coaches rating officials, I think most coaches do a pretty good job, but I would prefer to have my peers rate me for post season assignments. At least they have a clue to what makes a good official. They aren't emotionally involved in the evaluation.

PublicBJ · #25 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 11:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Do you want officals that have a vested interest in their own careers making these decisions or do you want coaches that have a vested interest in the outcome making those decisions? Seems to me one is not necessarily better than the other.

No, I'd rather have paid observers that are not officials in my association, so they don't have a vested interest in the rankings of officials.

Hey, wait. Isn't that the process Seattle has?

BktBallRef · #26 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 11:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by dsturdy5
Any ideas on what to do in this situation in the future? I couldn't leave because I had another game in that gym right after it was over.

If a coach comes after you after a game, get away from him. I don't care where you have to go, get away from him. If you can't possibly do it, warn him that he can still be ejected. If he keeps it up, run him. Either way report the incident. But don't stand there and explain yourself. It doesn't work.

bob jenkins · #27 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJoe
Bob,
I think he was working alone in that game. It would be tough to blame it on his partner!

That's the point of the statement. I wouldn't use it if I had a partner in that game.

mick · #28 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJoe
Bob,
I think he was working alone in that game. It would be tough to blame it on his partner!

That's the point of the statement. I wouldn't use it if I had a partner in that game.

YU.P.
Warped.

Kris3333 · #29 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 03:37pm

Although, you could blame it on your partner, who didn't show up to help you out, so you had to make do with what you had.

Tell him to live with it.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #30 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 18, 2003, 11:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
First Rule of Sports Officiating: Coaches are idiots and jerks.

Second Rule of Sports Officiating: See the First Rule of Sports Officiating.

I was taken to task for the above post. Tonight my mother's alma mater (Kansas Univ.) defeated Iowa State in Lawerence. The ISU coach (Larry Eustachy) was ejected for arguing a call (a charging foul against an ISU player) that he didn't know had been to a traveling call.

I rest my case.