Situation. A1 is inbounding ball on baseline at team A's bucket. A1 throws ball up and over backboard (ball doesn't hit cables or anything) and inbounds. I know that A1 should not be directly behind the backboard to inbound the ball, but even when off to the side a pass up and over can still occur. I know this is a violation but cannot find reference to this in the NFHS books. Can anyone point this out to me???

Thanks.

Rule 7 Out of Bounds and the Throw-in
SECTION 1 OUT-OF-BOUNDS — PLAYER, BALL
NOTE: When the rectangular backboard is used, the ball is out of bounds if it passes over the backboard.

It is legal, however, if you are using a fan backboard.

You are correct, sir
 

with respect to the fan backboard - no penalty.

May I take a moment ........
 

to complement a coach who is very well versed on the rules.

I know I'm very new here, bet where I come from, you just don't see that. My congratulations to you Hawks Coach.

If I may ask a question of you ~
Do you also officiate the game?

Re: You are correct, sir
 

I've wondered for years about this. What is the deal with OOB/rectangle v. not OOB/fan? This apparent inconsistency has existed for years, so there must be a reason for it. Right? Anybody care to enlighten me?

For that matter, why have fan-shaped backboards at all?

Watch out now
 

Here come all the ol "rule geezers". LOL just picking guys... i've often wondered this myself. so take my joke lightly and explain it to us... whos the man with all the answers around here?

Re: May I take a moment ........
 

No - I just coach. I came on this board with a couple of (now simple to me) rules questions, learned from the "ol' geezers" about how to find it in the book, and have stayed around for a few years. I like the members, I learn a lot, and like the opportunity to provide an alternate perspective. Plus I just like to argue anyway :)

I do believe firmly that more coaches should learn the rules, and how they are enforced, so they can train players properly. It is amazing how many players and coaches walk around with terrible misconceptions in their heads, when those issues could easily be resolved with a little attention to the rules of the game.

Re: Watch out now
 

It's actually a calculus/geometry answer - not an "ol geezer" answer.

The violation is for the ball passing over the "top" of the backboard. That is, if it passes by the "side" edges, there is no violation.

When you have a curve, there is only one point (infintesimally small) that is the true "top." Therefore, the ball would always be passing partially "over" the side - so a fan backboard doesn't carry a violation for going over.

Fan backboards
 

First, why fans? They are far cheaper, and last forever. If you are in an area with lots of fan backboards, they probably don't have the money in the school system to afford the plexiglass.

As for the difference in the rule, I think it is simply that there is no dividing point for the top of the backboard on a fan backboard. But maybe one of the geezers has more to offer.

Hmmm, I'm not buying it. It would be a simple matter to define over the "top" as being above the backboard between the two flat sides. That definition would be consistent between the two types.

This brings to mind another, related question: what if part of the ball passes over a rectangular backboard. In other words, if the ball was thrown "over" the backboard, but only part of it passed over the top between the sides. How much is enough to call it out of bounds?

entirely over = OOB
3/4 over?
1/2 over?
1/4 over?
< 1/4 over?

[Edited by Back In The Saddle on Feb 10th, 2003 at 11:58 PM]

Not all fan backboards have two flat sides.

Not that I've seen many, so I can't speak to reality. But according to the diagram on page 10 of the rulebook, the legal ones have flat sides.

BITS
Not sure what the point is about "legal" backboards. NFHS puts a rulebook out, and then you ref the games where they are played. Most HS gyms have the normal plexiglass backboards. The places you tend to find a lesser board is in rec centers, elementary schools, and some middle schools. You play with what they got in my experience.

We played with a rectangular wooden backboard and no markings on Sunday. Ball bounced off the board fine and it was securely fastened (i.e., no safety issue). I have played games in that rec center for 5 years with the same BBs. They have 30-40 games per weekend there. Is it legal by NFHS diagrams - no. Do we use NFHS rules - yes. Did we play the game - yes.

Hmm, the geometry argument is, in my mind, silly. I suspect the real reason has more to do with a recognition of how the ball plays off the fan vs. how it plays off the rectangle. B/c the fan is so much smaller, shots will flip over the edges and still be in rbl playing area more often. the expansion to a rectangle kept most shots in play.

Hawkk
I would buy that except I have heard that the reason for the rule had to do with baseline inbounds plays. In the case of a fan BB, it is easier to go over the top and get a pass to a player that on a rectangular BB would be hitting the back side of the BB. So something that would always result in a violation becomes legal with the fan BB.

Your explanation works for the front-to-back situation, but does not explain the back-to-front exception.

I understand what you're saying. And I agree with you.

My only point is that the folks who publish the rules also publish a diagram of a legal fan shaped backboard. That diagram shows two flat sides. Given that, from a rules perspective, it should be easy to define OOB as being "over the top, between the two flat sides." Which, in my mind, negates the geometry argument.

Having said all of that, I'm still really curious about what the real reason for the seeming inconsistency is :)

Heck, I can't explain everything!

Seriously, I can't think of a good reason for the back-to-front difference, other than that the difference was drawn because of the front to back. (In fact, if anything I would think the rule would go the other way in terms of back-to-front, as I thought the purpose of that rule was to prevent the OOB over the backboard pass for a dunk . . .) I'll stick with my guess that the rule evolved from the shot issue, and noone has bothered to think about whether the distinction really makes sense because of the decline in fan backboards.

damn
 

there was this one team that i coached against that fed ally oops over the back board 7 times during the game. I didnt not know this was illegal.

Damn we should have won that game

What's the "back-to-front exception??"

The exception for fan BBs goes both ways, that is, it applies to balls that go over the front to the back and over the back to the front. The fact that the fan BB is smaller could explain why they don't penalize a shot that goes over front-to-back, because it is much more likely to occur than with a rectangular BB. However, since on a rectangular backboard it is harder to go over the top, that same logic could be used to say you should never go back-to-front on a fan backboard because it would normally be hitting the back side of a rectangular BB.