Technical or not???

NWRef · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 04:06pm

New to the board. I've been following along with past discussions and thought I'd throw this out. My partner and I had just finished our 2 jv boys games on Friday night between crosstown rivals.

We stayed to watch the varsity game and during the second half with about 3 minutes left in the fourth qtr A-1 is on a fast break on the way to a layup (with a 12 pt lead). B-1 fouls him on the arm during the shot which causes the ball to bounce high off the backboard. Lead blows the whistle. Before the ball has passed down below the hoop A-2, who is screaming down the lane, leaps, grabs the ball and tries to dunk and misses.

Trail passes on the call and asked us in the dressing room afterwards whether we felt he should have made a call or not. I felt that because of the action post-whistle it should have been a technical. B-1's coach felt that way as well as he chewed on the lead for a while when he was done reporting. What do you think?

Blackhawk357 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 04:14pm

Great question.

A dead-ball dunk (or attempt) is a techincal foul. I beleive I would have assesed it. If it were just a shot, maybe a delay-of-game warning is in order. But I beleive I penalize the dunk.

Blackhawk

Hawks Coach · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 04:26pm

I am always an advocate for ignoring the immediate post whistle actions (and ball still above rim would qualify). Call what you absolutely need to, and I don't think this needs to be called.

DownTownTonyBrown · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 04:27pm

I think I would have to see this one to understand the whole situation.

Was the dunker already committed to his action (just follow through) or was the dunk attempt significantly later than the rest of the play. Was he showboating?

Follow-through? no T

Showboating? Assess the penalty per 10-3-5.... T-Bone.

From the description of this scenario... I think the T was likely not in order. Although the fact that the varsity officials asked you about it means that perhaps they were also in doubt.

NWRef · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 04:35pm

DTTB,

It looked to me as though it was kind of an "in your face" type of thing. Showboating??? probably. Granted it was a bang-bang type of play but I think he had time to pass on the dunk. It was a good clear whistle.

BBall_Junkie · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 04:35pm

Long time reader, first time Writer! I don't think it is possible to answer this question without seeing the play. Lots of variables for me to consider before making/passing on a call.
1. Did he have time to stop?
2. If he had left his feet prior to the whistle, was there any one under him?
3. Could he hear the whistle (Crowd Noise)
4. Was it a aggressive attempt to dunk (hang, swing on rim) or was it one where he just followed it and force the ball through rim (not much rim contact)?- We see many shots happen after the whistle in the form of lay-ups or jumpers- would this be any different.
5. Other Variables

I just think that there are so many things to consider in making this call that we don't have enough info to judge. I think you have to see it to know!

Blackhawk357 · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 04:51pm

True enough, if he is in the act, as long as he isn't hanging on the rim, you may be able to let it go. I was assuming that when the ball went "high off the backboard" that A2 had time to back off.

Hawks Coach ~ No, I love to see dunks, had a great one in the boys varsity game last Sat. night where BOTH groups of fans were cheering. What I hate to see is the injury or damaged equipment, not to mention fights brought on by taunting or "trash talk".

I beleive you penalize the dunk if A2 has a chance to stop. Just my opinion.

Blackhawk

canuckrefguy · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 10, 2003, 05:31pm

need to know a few things first,

How was the game? any trash-talking, etc. If this was nothing but a showboat stunt meant to taunt the team who's down by 12, <>.

How "extravagant" was the dunk? We don't need to go looking for stuff to call, especially T's, but we do need to penalize players who do stuff just to be dorks.

Could this guy have pulled up and stopped when he heard the whistle?

Was the rebound attempt legit, or was the ball in the cylinder?

This is definitely one of those "had to be there" calls.

Give the crew the benefit of the doubt on this one for passing up the T.

Nevadaref · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 11, 2003, 02:18am

If you consider the ball being thrown up high on the backboard by the player who was fouled to be a shot, then the ball is still live. Therefore, it doesn't become dead until it is clearly going to be unsuccessful or the second player jumps up and grabs it. Was the foul called in the act of shooting?
My point is that, in this play, there is very little time between when the ball actually becomes dead and when the second player attempts the dunk. This should give you a good enough reason to pass on any penalty, unless you believe the player is showing off.

canuckrefguy · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 11, 2003, 02:22am

Bravo....well put.

NWRef · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 11, 2003, 10:20am

Great responses. It's a great learning tool to hear the varying viewpoints. Just to clarify some of the circumstances.

A-1 was fouled in the act of shooting. He approached the basket from the right side of the key and started up to lay-in with his right hand. B-1 came across his arm just as the the ball left his hand on upward flight. The ball made contact with the backboard about a foot to the right of the basket and maybe a foot above the rim. The lead blew the whistle. A-1 & B-1's motion carried them both out of bounds. (Big Gym) The ball continued it's upward motion almost straight up before returning on downward flight. Left untouched the ball would have easily missed the edge of the basket to the right by six inches or more.

At the time of the whistle, A-2 was above the free throw line but coming hard down the lane. From the whistle he took 1 to 2 more strides and went up after the ball. The ball was so far to the right of the basket about all he got done was bang the rim with the ball on the dunk. He did not hang on and there was no one under him. When he came down he turned and played the crowd a little. It might have played better if he had made the shot.........

There wasn't a lot of talking in the game but it had been very physical during both halves. When we talked in the dressing room after the game. The lead said he didn't see the dunk as he was watching the orginal shooter and the continuing action out of bounds. The trail was the one who asked us whether we thought he should have made a call or not. It was bugging him a little. Thanks guys. I appreciate your imput.