Cinn-Louisville....

[DrakeM]

Anyone see the flagrant elbow to the face that was thrown
in the Cincy-Louisville game?
Player was NOT ejected!

[ChuckElias]

Didn't see it. I'll go check out SportsCenter highlights, tho!

[Larks]

Originally posted by DrakeM
Anyone see the flagrant elbow to the face that was thrown
in the Cincy-Louisville game?
Player was NOT ejected!

Before I talk about the foul, how about the unconscious effort by Francisco Garcia for Louisville who was 8-11 from 3 for 24 points. Memo to Huggs and the staff....Who's got that guy?!? Somebody better guard him when the Cardinals come to Cincinnati. Hold him to 5-11 which is still good and you have a different outcome.

I thought it was a great call and I'm from the Cincy. Louisville got 2 and the ball. Hugg's argument was the UC player was held (fouled) ahead of the elbow swing. I believe the bow was swung in an effort to clear the hold and or creat some space.

For those who didnt see it, the UC player (Johnson), was facing the louisville player (Stone) in the FC near UC's bench in the 2nd half. Johnson had the ball in both hands holding it to his left hand side. When the Stone put some defense on, Johnson swung the ball from his left, over his head to his right side. Johnson's elbow made solid contact on Stone's right cheek. Stone amazingly seemed unfazed. I am betting a Louisville Dentist will have another customer today. Anyway, the Trail called an Intentional Foul for swinging elbow w/ contact on Johnson. I didnt feel like this was a flagrant act myself.

I will say that with 10 to go, that game became a war. Hats off to that crew. That had to be a tough game to work. There had to be 8 or 9 Blocked shots on layups down the stretch. Some great no-calls.

Larks - VIT




[Edited by larks on Feb 6th, 2003 at 08:47 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Just saw it. That young man has to be tossed. He loaded up and clearly just wanted to plant the defender into the third row. He cocked his arm, thought better of it, then thought "why not?" and did it anyway. That was just as flagrant as if he'd led with a fist, instead of his elbow. Wow.

Chuck

[rockyroad]

I agree...looked like he cocked, double-checked to see where ref was - and then threw it hard directly at the face...bye-bye!

[Larks]

Originally posted by rockyroad
I agree...looked like he cocked, double-checked to see where ref was - and then threw it hard directly at the face...bye-bye!

Just saw the replay. Yeah, that looked pretty bad. Johnson does kind of look around before he comes thru. So you guys are suggesting that could have been a flagrant reather than intentional?

[pizanno]

I've watched it six times, now, and changed my mind twice.

Yeah, he looked around first as if to say "no call, eh, ref? Well, I'll have to get him off myself"

But, I'd respectfully have to disagree with Chuck that it's just as flagrant as a fist. If we see a fist, I think it's an automatic, even if there's no contact.

If he doesn't make contact on this play, then violation, yes?

Still...I think either call is justified, although flagrant (with possible suspension) would be a tougher sell.

[DrakeM]

Before I say anything else, let me state that I have been in situations where, AS A CREW, we missed an elbow to the face that resulted in a player's nose being broken. A foul WAS called here and that ultimately is the important thing.
I just wonder at times if we are afraid to do the "right" thing because we are worried about a "certain coach" or "administrator" reporting negatively about us.

My first thought when seeing the play was same as Chuck's.
"Throw him!"
Even though Huggins would obviously have complained after the game to the Supervisor, he wouldn't have had a LEG TO STAND ON! All the Super. would have to do is throw the tape in and look for himself.
Very experienced Crew on this game, and they have my respect. Just curious as to the thought process.

I agree Chuck, that the elbow was no different than if he had cocked his fist and thrown a punch.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by pizanno
But, I'd respectfully have to disagree with Chuck that it's just as flagrant as a fist. If we see a fist, I think it's an automatic, even if there's no contact.

If he doesn't make contact on this play, then violation, yes?

Yes. But on this play, the elbow was the same as a fist. This particular play was flagrant, IMO. That was my only point. I was not trying to say that any elbow -- with or without contact -- is flagrant. I was merely commenting on this one sitch.

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

I saw it. Also have seen the replay numerous times. Gotta agree completely with the lovely and talented representative from Massachusetts,Mr. Elias. Flagrant Foul.

[pizanno]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Yes. But on this play, the elbow was the same as a fist. This particular play was flagrant, IMO. That was my only point. I was not trying to say that any elbow -- with or without contact -- is flagrant. I was merely commenting on this one sitch.

Chuck

Yeah..i see your point. Elbow, fist, or even foot, can be considered an intent to injure. Err on the side of safety and he'll never (?) do it again.

..okay, I change my mind again!

[ChuckElias]

Lovely? Don't expect anything on the first date. . .