5th foul, 30 second replacement

[donj]

NFHS

Player A1 called for 5th foul and one and one situation. Coach and player notified. Timer starts 30 second clock for replacement player to enter. During this process, coach get his players together by the bench and uses the 30 seconds as if it was a timeout. Just before horn sounds, sub reports to table and enters. Is this allowed for coach to huddle up with players for this situation? Also, team B lined up to shoot free throws while this was going on.

thanks

[Mregor]

Allowed and pretty much standard practice where I am. Just be sure the sub is ready before the last horn. Use preventive officiating here by insisting that the coach give you a sub at the first horn. Don't just say in coaches direction "I need your sub", make sure he/she hears you and knows you need the sub before the final horn.

Mregor

[devdog69]

You mentioned the first horn, Mregor. Does the rulebook say that the warning horn shall be sounded at a certain time in this situation? I don't have my books with me, but I have been asking around and it doesn't seem to be SOP to use a horn in my area in this sitch. Personally, I have been instructing the timer "Please time 30 seconds for me and give me a horn at twenty please".

[Mregor]

I've gotten so used to it, I had to look it up. By rule, the timer only has to give you a horn at 30. I guess I don't know why or when it started, buy I ask for 2 in pregame just like a 30 second timeout. I've heard other officials suggest that they only get one horn presumably at the 20 second mark to eliminate the problem of late reporting being a tech without some room for judgement. But by rule, there is only one horn.

Mregor

[donj]

Rule/case # requested now.

Now that it seems to be an acceptable free timeout as pere mregor, could you or someone give me a rule/case # for this if there is one. Thanks again.

[devdog69]

think of it more like this don. It is not illegal by rule, therefore since it is not illegal it must be legal. I don't have my casebook and can't remember if there is one on it or not.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by donj
Rule/case # requested now.

Now that it seems to be an acceptable free timeout as pere mregor, could you or someone give me a rule/case # for this if there is one. Thanks again.

Rule 2-12-5 and 10-5-1(d).
Casebook plays 10.5.1SitA and 10..5.1SitB(c).
By rule,one horn only at 30 seconds.If the sub hasn't reached the table when the horn sounds,it's a direct T on the head coach.He ends up getting seatbelted too.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 4th, 2003 at 05:10 PM]

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Rule 2-12-5 and 10-5-1(d).
Casebook plays 10.5.1SitA and 10..5.1SitB(c).
By rule,one horn only at 30 seconds.If the sub hasn't reached the table when the horn sounds,it's a direct T on the head coach.He ends up getting seatbelted too.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 4th, 2003 at 05:10 PM]

donj, JR quoted the correct casebook play 10.5.1B, which tells you that the coach may have a talk with his players BEFORE he sends in a sub for the disqualified player. If he sends in the sub immediately, then he loses the right to have a brief conference and you continue the game right away.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Rule 2-12-5 and 10-5-1(d).
Casebook plays 10.5.1SitA and 10..5.1SitB(c).
By rule,one horn only at 30 seconds.If the sub hasn't reached the table when the horn sounds,it's a direct T on the head coach.He ends up getting seatbelted too.

There are some states implementing an experimental rule where a warning horn is given on DQ replacements. (Oregon is one of them)