Good game management?
 

Was watching a 12u AAU game. A1 drives in for a lay-up attempt. B1 and B2 attempt to block the shot. Ref blows the whistle, preparing to call a foul on B2. B1 doesn't realize the foul is on his teammate, thinks its going to be on him, so throws his arms out, palms up, like "are you serious". B1 sort of stomps away - not hugely dramatic, but obvious. As the official reports the foul he looks at B's coach, holds out his hand with his index finger and thumb almost touching, like "he's this close, coach", and tells the coach to take B1 out. Coach complies.

Good game management?

So he said "he's this close, coach" and he told the coach to take him out? That's a whole lot of conversation.

Telling a coach to take someone out of a game has been discussed in a recent thread.

Tee him up, or don't. There is no try.

Personally, I'd give the T; but I've got no issue with some preventive officiating here. I don't ask the coach to pull the player, however. I'll usually just say something along the lines of, "Coach, you might want to have a word with #23."

+1

Whether I'd call the T is an HTBT, but I find nothing wrong with the OP's approach.

That approach was ok if the rules say that an official may sit a player...

But what works well for me in that situation (multiple defenders in the vicinity on a foul call) *Tweet* "34 thats yours." It helps eliminate 23 thinking its on him.

So how did Phil Jackson reply when you told him to have a word with Michael Jordan? :confused:

For that matter, proper mechanics essentially require you do do so.....not in those words but effectively the same result. If there is any question about who may have committed the foul, I very quickly (more so than normal) identify the fouler to avoid exactly that sort of response.

Often, I'll even tell the non-fouling player that they made a clean play (had great position or whatever) if I sense any sort of reaction coming.....kill the response before they do something I have to penalize.

• "Hey blue 44, you had great position....it would have been a charge if your teammate hadn't shoved him in the back."
  
• "Hey red 13, you were straight up, but 24 smacked him on his face".

I find that such things help keep those players from turning into problems.

Good advice!

-Josh

I do the same....."Coach, #23 is very close to trouble. Can you help us with him".

Most will deal with it and are very appreciative of the opportunity to reel them in before we penalize. I've even had a few that voluntarily benched the player when I've brought certain actions to their attention....problem solved.

Absolutely +1

A+ advice right here also use bird dog mechanic on fouls if possible

Can't say you'll ever find me bird dogging...if the situation happened like in the OP, I'd just verbalize who the foul was on to prevent the potential problem with the other player.

Not the bird dog... let's not bring that back :D

Fixed it for you. ;)

It's never necessary. As APG noted, just verbalize it.

what makes you say its never necessary? just wondering im learning too lol

While "never" may be extreme, it's a relic signal. It's easier to verbalize, and better, IMO. It's less confrontational.

I can't imagine a scenario where it would be better than verbalizing.

If your supervisors and assigners want you to use it, disregard everything I've written on the topic. :D

It's almost never necessary...for 90+ percent of the calls we make, everyone knows who you're calling it on The only time I could justify using the mechanic, is in a situation like the OP brought up, but I'd rather just use my voice to defuse that situation. Plus IMO, it just looks silly and was a pet peeve of mine watching the tournament this year and every official bird dogging and pointing on all types of calls that no one had a question about.

Unfortunately in TN it is mandatory. The State Supervisor has stated that if "I walk into a GYM to observe a referee that has been recommended by a local association, to work the State tournament, and said referee does not Bird Dog the first foul He calls, I am turning and walking out of the gym."

Thats quite unfortunate :rolleyes:

It is a simple matter of expecting officials to follow simple instructions from the state about how they want the game called. If the don't do something so simple as that, why should they believe they'll do what else is asked of them?

Thats one way of looking at it. Another is, WTF does bird dogging have to do with the ultimate goal... getting plays RIGHT?

What if the first foul he calls is a fastbreak one on one block/charge? I come out with a block & I have to point the offender out as he lays on his back! It's unfortunate for those who have to follow THAT order.

Our guidance
 

Here's the procedure we're taught:

Tweet! Color, number, infraction. (Blue, 44, Push... say it right there on the spot.)

Then point to the place where it's going to be put in play (or say two shots, or whatever is appropriate) ... so your partners know what's going on.

Then go report.

Solves a lot of the above... without bird dogging. Ugh.

I find nothing wrong with Snag's approach ... but the OP's approach is awful. I can think of NO instance where telling a coach to bench a player is appropriate. T him or don't T him - as you say, HTBT. But telling the coach whether he can play a player or not is incredibly awful. We, as officials, have absolutely no right to do this. If his actions warrant the T, do it... but even if they do, he can stay in the game - where is it even remotely our place to suggest he sit? Just awful.

Some areas, and some leagues, this is an accepted practice. These are usually coach-run leagues, so if a coach didn't like the approach it won't last long.

I'd never consider doing this in any regular season game, at any level; but sometimes things can be used during summer ball that can't be used during the regular season.

The problem I see, depending on game situation, is that this kid might be his best player, and your invented penalty of telling the coach to bench him would be WORSE to that team than simply giving them the penalty they earned (the T) ... if the T is even necessary. Who knows how long before that next dead ball so he can reenter ... who knows if you've now forced that team to use a TO to get the kid back in. I can think of SO many things wrong about this, I'm very surprised it's tolerated, much less suggested or accepted.

The emphasis of summer ball is not winning so much as instruction, playing time, conditioning, etc. IOW, it's a learning time. Some coaches request this remedy.
Some don't even shoot free throws for Ts (some just give points, some shoot one shot) in the summer. Others would rather sit the kid, skip the free throws, and keep the game moving.
That said, if I were ever to make such a suggestion, it would be a suggestion only, and a coach would be free to ignore it without penalty. But if I was to take that step, the player would be awfully close to earning the T.

That's on me. I misread that part. I didn't see past "the fingers." I agree with you, MB.

I brought up bird dogging for discussion purposes,. my camp guys all say do something like tref said back in the thread thats how i do it and i like it pretty good

Does this old codger still communicate via fax too?

Nah, it takes him too long to dial the numbers on rotary.

Just got this email from the assignor of this weekends tournament...

Tournament Regulations and Guidelines  For 9th -12th Grade Division

Inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated!!! A referee may remove players from the game or tournament for inappropriate behavior. We are here for the kids. Do not allow or condone poor sportsmanship. This includes coaches and parents!

Hey, when in Rome, wear a toga.

Hopefully they have some security in place to help enforce the policy.

Probably not, but I've very rarely went there anyway. And if I do, hey its Colorado not the 2 up 2 down :D

Shoot, I've heard some stories about the Springs. And Colfax Ave is famous among Air Force folks.

Colfax is almost famous among law enforcement folks.

As for the Springs. No comment. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...ages/whaat.gif

:D

I've had more trouble in the Springs than in the 5280. Maybe its a familiarity thing?

He is not all that old, He is going to be around a long, long, time. Active NCAA referee, full time employee of the State.

The Board of Control sets policy. It is run by school administrators, ADs, Principles etc. The State Supervisor is seen as the "Bad Guy", but is only enforcing what the BOC sets as policy.

walking out
 

State guy says the first foul he sees without a bird dog he's turning and walking out.

Betcha he doesn't.

Then, exit stage left!