You're done

Adam · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 12:42am

Freshman boys game tonight. V-1 gets fouled, and is shooting the bonus. V-2, upset that he's being pulled out since the game is getting close again, swears on his way off the court, "This is Bull-s***." Partner heard it and held his whistle. V-2 kicks the chairs as he gets to the bench, and throws a water bottle across the court. Partner whacks him with one T and ejects him at the same time.
Only called 1 T, can we eject him on 1 T? H coach thought we were giving 2 T's, and barked about that for a minute.
The kid deserved a trip to the showers (coach said afterwards he's probably off the team), but should we have called a second T?

snaqs

Josh Ovens · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 01:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Freshman boys game tonight. V-1 gets fouled, and is shooting the bonus. V-2, upset that he's being pulled out since the game is getting close again, swears on his way off the court, "This is Bull-s***." Partner heard it and held his whistle. V-2 kicks the chairs as he gets to the bench, and throws a water bottle across the court. Partner whacks him with one T and ejects him at the same time.
Only called 1 T, can we eject him on 1 T? H coach thought we were giving 2 T's, and barked about that for a minute.
The kid deserved a trip to the showers (coach said afterwards he's probably off the team), but should we have called a second T?

snaqs

in this instant i think there is always a better way to handling a situation like this. for this situation, a T is warranted for his profanity and a second T, resulting in an injection for throwing the water bottle across the floor. in that instant, have game management remove him from the floor. dont give a 3rd T for something because there is no such thing as a third one (even though Bobby KNight got 3 from Ted Valentine) anytime you have an ejection, get game management and let them take care of it, once you toss him hes not your responsibility.
But lets say V1 gets whistled for his 2nd foul, and hes upset and say, "what are you blind, thats Bull****" well, lets say you whistle him up. and as he goes to the bench he throws a chair on the floor. i think its best to have your partner assess the the second T, that way the person that originally called the foul, difnt call 2 T and toss the kid. It evens it out more and becomes more manageable i think. But if this is to be done, its something you have to communicate with your partner in pregame.

Josh Ovens · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 01:10am

sorry, to not answer your question. but yea, you can toss him on the first T. i dont think it would have mattered because i think from the 2 infractions he shouldve gotten 2 Ts. that kids coach shouldnt say much,and if he did, i would tell him<"hey, you caught a break, it shouldve been 4 shots and the ball, but its only 2 shots and the ball"
its the same as if a coach shoved you when while being angry at a call. you cant just whistle him for 1 and seatbelt him to the bench,hes gotta go. But if you toss someone on 1 T, you better be sure they deserve it.

Adam · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 01:14am

Thanks. Coach apologized on the spot. And then apologized after the game. Lead was tenuous at that point, and coach didn't want to do anything stupid.

Thanks again,

snaqs

Josh Ovens · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 01:39am

im always willing to talk with the coach about that if he is apologizing. i once had a coach come down to the lockeroom with a player my partner T ed and made him apologize, and the coach said he was sorry. and that if we ever had him again and somethign like this happens, by all means T them up. so you can earn a coachs respect for keeping his kids in line. its our responsibility to do so just like the coaches, and its much nicer for him to do it, but more often than not if you have to T him. he shouldnt give you too much grief about it.

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 01:45am

When coaches apologize for the behavior of players, it is howler monkey language for "don't start making calls against my team because you are upset with my player".

They're not really sorry. They just want to minimize the amount of trouble they may get into.

canuckrefguy · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 02:08am

Good call, Mark.

Incidentally, in NCAA rules, is it the Flagrant T that you eject a player/coach with...without having to call a second T? Is it the same in NFHS?

Jurassic Referee · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 06:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Good call, Mark.

Incidentally, in NCAA rules, is it the Flagrant T that you eject a player/coach with...without having to call a second T? Is it the same in NFHS?

A single flagrant foul of any type is always a disqualification.

dhodges007 · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 08:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Good call, Mark.

Incidentally, in NCAA rules, is it the Flagrant T that you eject a player/coach with...without having to call a second T? Is it the same in NFHS?

A single flagrant foul of any type is always a disqualification.

I gotta ask, but since he is on the bench can you actually give him the T? Wouldn't it be an indirect on the coach and then toss the player for his attitude? Oh, yes you can toss them on one. If they argue just give 'em one more

And Josh, when a player is ejected in NF they are bench personel and stay on the bench.

bard · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 09:02am

dont give a 3rd T for something because there is no such thing as a third one

I believe this conversation has come up before on this board, and I don't believe there's a cap on the # of T's someone can receive. Not saying I'm encouraging it, but I don't think the rules prevent it.

Mark Dexter · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 09:11am

Don't forget, folks, in NFHS rules, a player is disqualified on a flagrant technical foul - not ejected (an NCAA term). A player may be removed from the game, but they need to be sent out with an adult so that we are not responsible for whatever happens to them.

A Pennsylvania Coach · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 09:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh Ovens

for this situation, a T is warranted for his profanity and a second T, resulting in an injection for throwing the water bottle across the floor.

Injection? Isn't the death penalty a wee bit harsh for this?

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 10:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh Ovens

for this situation, a T is warranted for his profanity and a second T, resulting in an injection for throwing the water bottle across the floor.

Injection? Isn't the death penalty a wee bit harsh for this?

For a player-yes. For a coach....?

moose69 · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 11:08am

Josh,personally i don't see any advantage in having your partner T him up the 2nd time. What if your partner isn't even paying attention and the jackass does something to warrant a T? Are you gonna yell down and say "Hey,Parter, whack this kid and get him outta here, i can't, i've already called one on him!" I think that is rather pointless. And evening it up shouldn't be a concern anyways, after all, we don't disqualify players, players disqualify themselves.

TR

dhodges007 · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 11:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Don't forget, folks, in NFHS rules, a player is disqualified on a flagrant technical foul - not ejected (an NCAA term). A player may be removed from the game, but they need to be sent out with an adult so that we are not responsible for whatever happens to them.

Oh yeah, I knew that they may, it was too early in the AM.