Vocal Coach

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Officials who subscribe to this philosophy, and those who are in a position to eval the "moving up" of other officials who do use this technique ought to be drummed out of the officials ranks.

Favoritism is favoritism no matter how you try to rationalize it.

Mark,
I work with 5 or 6 DII officials that are regularly telling me that #XX has a certain number of fouls.
During the game, they may as well be telling me what happened to their second cousin 12 years ago.
My acknowledgment is somewhere between "okay" and "uh".

This must be taught, learned and practiced in the required camps.
mick

[tw1ns]

Its a crock of #*!@#& is what it is. I side with the majority on this one. It can't happen.
I attended a clinic last year and a couple of "younger officials" who had worked the state tourney were there and talked to a group of officials and they came right out and said, "Know who the people paid to come and see", "Know who the Stars are" My partner and I looked at each other in disbelief. I guess it worked for them and got them to the state tourney.....

[mick]

Originally posted by tw1ns
..."Know who the people paid to come and see", "Know who the Stars are" ....

If we know the stars, we can give 'em a shirt.

[Ref Daddy]

Please don't let the worst part of the NBA - star favoritizm - encroach into HSBB sportsmanship.

Look where it got the NBA ref's.

[dblref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

6'8"????? To heck with LeBron James - someone needs to double check that this kid is eligible to play for an 8th grade team!!!

Did a game like this when Keith Bogans(?) was in the 8th grade at a private school (think it was Langley Day?). Coach told me he rarely ever let Keith play more than the 1st quarter because of his size and the fact that he was so talented. Bogans told me during a break in the 1st quarter that he was going to DeMatha the next year and he did.

[Hawks Coach]

We always try to attack the best players on the other team. If it is a post player, we will dump it in to our best post player and use moves designed to get them in foul trouble. If it is a guard, we will attack them consantly on the dribble. If they can't play both ends of the floor, they'll get hit with some fouls. If they can't face multiple players going at them all game, their feet will get slow on D and they'll draw some lazy reach in fouls by game's end.

Please don't tell me you are going to protect them because they can score. It kind of makes things a bit unbalanced against the other team.

[mick]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
We always try to attack the best players on the other team. If it is a post player, we will dump it in to our best post player and use moves designed to get them in foul trouble. If it is a guard, we will attack them consantly on the dribble. If they can't play both ends of the floor, they'll get hit with some fouls. If they can't face multiple players going at them all game, their feet will get slow on D and they'll draw some lazy reach in fouls by game's end.

Please don't tell me you are going to protect them because they can score. It kind of makes things a bit unbalanced against the other team.

Coach,
That's the way I learned to play the game. I rarely hear that anymore.
mick

[fletch_irwin_m]

Would this situation be considered favoritism?
A1 is the "star" player. They have 3 or 4 fouls. B1 comes driving through the lane. A1,A2 and A5 are all around the play. You see A1 slap the arm and A5 bumps B1 just afterwards. You come out and call the foul on A5.
To me this is different then Hawks scenario. If you are isolating and it is one on one, call it. If it is 5 it is 5. But if there is a crowd and you can chose, I am not sure that is favoritism. I think it falls under "game management".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
Would this situation be considered favoritism?
A1 is the "star" player. They have 3 or 4 fouls. B1 comes driving through the lane. A1,A2 and A5 are all around the play. You see A1 slap the arm and A5 bumps B1 just afterwards. You come out and call the foul on A5.
To me this is different then Hawks scenario. If you are isolating and it is one on one, call it. If it is 5 it is 5. But if there is a crowd and you can chose, I am not sure that is favoritism. I think it falls under "game management".

Jmo,Fletch,but I think that you are WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!That's not game management,that's copping out on your duty as an official.A1 committed the first foul.That's what you should call.It's not our job to favor anybody on the court,and that's exactly what you're doing in this case.

[RecRef]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
You see A1 slap the arm and A5 bumps B1 just afterwards. You come out and call the foul on A5.

"You see AI slap" STOP - Foul

"A5 bumps B1 just afterwards." Contact after the foul and I got nothing

[fletch_irwin_m]

REC, let me do a better job explaining my scenario. How many times have we seen a player driving down the lane and his defender is bumping him and another defender reaches in. We see the slap and we see the bump both in a split second if not simultaneous. Which one do you call? Did the bump lead to the slap, did the slap lead to the bump? All I am saying is if it is a "scrum" would you consider it favoritism by NOT calling a foul on the star when the foul could be called on a number of other players? My thought is no. (Assuming I am bright enough to know who the star player is, which is assuming a lot!)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
All I am saying is if it is a "scrum" would you consider it favoritism by NOT calling a foul on the star when the foul could be called on a number of other players? My thought is no. (Assuming I am bright enough to know who the star player is, which is assuming a lot!)

Fletch,please think of it this way. There are two teams on the floor.You are favoring the star player's team if you don't call the foul on the proper player.At the same time,you are also screwing the other team completely.Somehow,I don't think that this is the way that Mr. Naismith intended his game to be officiated.If you're gonna call a foul,call it on the first player that commits one.

[fletch_irwin_m]

JR
I agree, while 90% of the time the person who commits a fould is obvious, but what about the 10%? Had a situation over the weekend that is not uncommon. B1 comes down with the rebound. A1 and A2 reach in to steal the ball. As he pivots I see a hand from A1 and a hand from A2 grabbing the wrists of B1. Who do you call the foul on? This type of play is not uncommon. The ball is on the ground and people are slapping and holding, or two players go up to block a shot and they both make contact with the shooter. What I am saying, is that in these instances, when there is NO CLEAR CUT INITIAL FOUL, why should you call it on the "star" player? If it is clear cut then you HAVE to call it, but what about that grey area?

[Adam]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
JR
I agree, while 90% of the time the person who commits a fould is obvious, but what about the 10%? Had a situation over the weekend that is not uncommon. B1 comes down with the rebound. A1 and A2 reach in to steal the ball. As he pivots I see a hand from A1 and a hand from A2 grabbing the wrists of B1. Who do you call the foul on? This type of play is not uncommon. The ball is on the ground and people are slapping and holding, or two players go up to block a shot and they both make contact with the shooter. What I am saying, is that in these instances, when there is NO CLEAR CUT INITIAL FOUL, why should you call it on the "star" player? If it is clear cut then you HAVE to call it, but what about that grey area?

IMO, you're better off flipping a coin. Star treatment is unbecoming an unbiased official, it IMO. Or better yet, a multiple foul. 4-19-10 NFHS

snaqs

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
What I am saying, is that in these instances, when there is NO CLEAR CUT INITIAL FOUL, why should you call it on the "star" player? If it is clear cut then you HAVE to call it, but what about that grey area?

If there is no clear cut initial foul,then you don't have any foul.You should never make any call that you're not sure of.You do call the first CLEAR CUT INITIAL FOUL that you see.You don't worry about who's actually committing that FIRST clear cut foul.If the star player happens to be the one that commits that FIRST clear cut foul,so be it.That's all I'm telling you,Fletch.