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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 08:45am
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Last night, GV, 3 man crew. I was the lead ready to administer the first of two free throws and Team B (not shooting) has one girl in the first slot, one girl at mid court and the other three huddled by the coach (no time out had been called - just regular game continuation).

I raised my voice three times over a 15-20 second period "I need a player from Team B to be on the lane!" before I got a player from Team B to respond.

Would you handle the situation differently? Would go ahead and administer the first free throw, knowing Team B would be violating? Would you blow the whistle and issue a delay of game warning? Team B definitely did not respond in a timely manner. They did that one other time in the game only the delay was less, but it still was a delay.

As I said, I waited - I did not want to go looking for trouble, but I definitely would have been justified in taking further action. Just wondering, what would you do?
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 09:01am
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If I am administering the free throw, I will stand there and yell the color while pointing to the spot they need to occupy. Doesn't happen to often but I've never had a problem.

Stan
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 09:40am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ref in PA
Last night, GV, 3 man crew. I was the lead ready to administer the first of two free throws and Team B (not shooting) has one girl in the first slot, one girl at mid court and the other three huddled by the coach (no time out had been called - just regular game continuation).

I raised my voice three times over a 15-20 second period "I need a player from Team B to be on the lane!" before I got a player from Team B to respond.

Would you handle the situation differently? Would go ahead and administer the first free throw, knowing Team B would be violating? Would you blow the whistle and issue a delay of game warning? Team B definitely did not respond in a timely manner. They did that one other time in the game only the delay was less, but it still was a delay.

As I said, I waited - I did not want to go looking for trouble, but I definitely would have been justified in taking further action. Just wondering, what would you do?

First, the only penalty in this situation, is a delay of game technical foul. There is no delay of game warning because this is not a huddle in the free throw lane and the ball cannot be put into play as in a resuming play situation after a timeout.

Second, 15-20 seconds is way too long to be telling a coach to get a player in the first lane space. Since this was a three-person crew, as soon as you were ready to put the ball in to play, the Trail should have been instructing the coach to get a player in the first lane space. If a player has not responded to this request with five seconds, the Trail should have made one more request. If there is no response to this second request then it is a direct technical charged to the Head Coach for delay of game.

This is a tactic to ice the free throw shooter without taking a charged team timeout and should be discouraged. I have found that this is happening more and more frequently.
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 10:01am
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Talking

I don't have my rulebook with me, and I don't mean to disagree with Mr. DeNucci Sr., but I thought that in this situation, you administer the first free throw, and if the try is unsuccessful, it is simply a lane violation. If the slot is not filled on the replacement try, THEN a technical foul is administered.

Forgive me if I'm wrong!!!
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 10:09am
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You are right Trigger, MTD is a little overzealous. A lane violation is an automatic technical foul, not for me... I would definitely give the ball to the shooter, if they don't respond, we would have a violation if missed and if they continue to delay, then I would assess a technical foul, but not immediately. Sounds like overzealous officiating to me...
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 10:19am
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Quote:
Originally posted by TriggerMN
I don't have my rulebook with me, and I don't mean to disagree with Mr. DeNucci Sr., but I thought that in this situation, you administer the first free throw, and if the try is unsuccessful, it is simply a lane violation. If the slot is not filled on the replacement try, THEN a technical foul is administered.

Forgive me if I'm wrong!!!
The procedure you describe is followed (only) during a resuming of play procedure (after a TO, for example).

IF it's not a resuming of play procedure (and the original situation wasn't), there's no "warning" -- it's an immediate T if B refuses to occupy the spots.

Personally, I place great emphasis on the word "refuses" -- if B is just confused, or not listening to the refs, then I give them every chance to get in the spots.
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 11:09am
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Thanks Bob - I had the exact same thought. The first FT violation provision applies only to resuming play, not to this sitch. As for MTD, I think you missed it here. This is a cluless coach who does not know that his team does not have the lower lane spaces filled, or does not know his team needs to fill both lower lane spaces. It is usually considered something you deserve to be able to fill, and some coaches pay no attention to the fact you are required to fill them.
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 11:32am
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Thumbs down

As the lead did you convey your problem to the trail? I think he should have stepped into the huddle and told the coach the first time to get a player on the bottom lane space. I don't think we can administer the free throw with the knowledge that the non-throwing team doesn't have the bottom two spaces occupied. Sometimes, without our knowledge it happens. But the rule is clear in 9-1 art. 2 "an opponant of the thrower SHALL occupy each lane space adjacent to the endline.....
So under this rule we can't knowingly administer this free throw with only one lane space occupied unless the dreaded one player left on the floor is in effect. I would say that MTD is correct that the only recourse is a delay of game T. However, I would make sure that the coach understands what is going to happen before we go.
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 11:42am
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By rule, MTD is totally correct. This isn't a "resuming play" situation so you cannot just shoot the free throw with a defensive delayed FT lane violation. There must be a defensive player in the inside spot on both sides.

Where is your trail official when all this is going on? He/she should go to the coach and say, "coach, you have to have a player in each low block spot. Failure to do so is a technical foul." That should motivate the coach. If the coach refuses (I can't imagine that he would given his choices) it's a T. If he complies, you've got nothing except a short delay which you probably won't see again.

Z
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 11:51am
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Where was the trail?

Just standing around.

I have not ever had this happen to me before. Next time I will ask the trail to notify the coach.

Thanks for all your input.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 11:52am
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If an opponent of the free thrower is not adjacent to the end line, its a violation. 9.1.2 Penalized by reshooting if the try is missed. 9.1.2.a or b. Pages 51 and 52.

Sorry if I goofed up the citations. I'm refering to the rule book and not the case book.

Stan
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 12:08pm
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It's also in the case book: 9.1.2

Stan
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 12:17pm
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Yes, you folks are correct. I was thinking of the resuming play procedure. Thanks.
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 12:19pm
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I think in this situation if the coach ignored me I would have the trail tell the girl in the middle of the court to fill in. Coach may have thought that she was and didn't understand what your request was. (Maybe why he only had three in the huddle.) I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, and if she says no or won't go...whack! (delay of game, not her)
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Old Thu Jan 30, 2003, 12:26pm
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So am I wrong?

Quote:
Originally posted by Stan
If an opponent of the free thrower is not adjacent to the end line, its a violation. 9.1.2 Penalized by reshooting if the try is missed. 9.1.2.a or b. Pages 51 and 52.

Sorry if I goofed up the citations. I'm refering to the rule book and not the case book.

Stan
Am I wrong in what I see in the rules, that this is a violation penalized with a reshoot if it's missed?

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