Can we agree on this?

[mplagrow]

I've asked this question in different forums and received conflicting answers:

A1 passes to A2 in the front court. Pass is deflected by B1, then off of A2's hand into the back court. Is it a violation for A to recover in the back court? I've been lead to believe yes, but a number of other officials say that a touch does not re-establish team control in the front court. What say you?

[ScottParks]

A1 has player control, and therefore team control in the front court. While passing to A2, B1 tips the ball - no change in team control as B did not control the ball. A2 then touches the ball in the FC and re-establishes player control in the backcourt.

Violation. For this not the be illegal, A would have to recover the ball in the BC after B1's touch.

[firedoc]

Scott is absolutely correct. A touch by team B does not change team control. Team control is only lost after the opposing team obtains control, a shot occurs, or a whistle causes the ball to become dead.

[refjef40]

Exactly right the rule is pretty cut and dried the last player to touch after A has control in the frontcourt is all that matters.

[Mark Padgett]

Of course this is a violation. I think those "other refs" are confused by the terminology "team control in the front court". The rule says there must be team control, and the ball must have established frontcourt status. There's nothing in the rule that requires "team control in the front court", which is a confusing term.

[ScottParks]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Of course this is a violation. I think those "other refs" are confused by the terminology "team control in the front court". The rule says there must be team control, and the ball must have established frontcourt status. There's nothing in the rule that requires "team control in the front court", which is a confusing term.

Mark, just to clarify, I don't think I said you had to have "team control in the front court" as a requirement. I said they had "team control" in the "front court", which was a statement of fact.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by mplagrow

A1 passes to A2 in the front court.

I'm with Mark on this one. If you look at the original description again, it is not clear where A1 is located. A2 is certainly in the front court, but according to the way this is written A1 may or may not be. So Mark's point that it doesn't matter is excellent.

[mplagrow]

I should have clarified that both A1 and A2 were in the front court when the pass was made.

[hawkk]

Originally posted by mplagrow
I should have clarified that both A1 and A2 were in the front court when the pass was made.

I assume you also mean that the ball was in bounds -- if the pass was an inbounds pass, then there would be no BC violation b/c there was never team control in the FC.

[krobs]

The best way I have had an over-and-back described to me that handles this situation is to treat it just like an out-of-bounds play. The last person to touch the ball caused it to go into the backcourt.

[Paul LeBoutillier]

It's kinda worrysome that some officials on another board would NOT consider this a B/C violation. The rules are pretty clear about establishing team control and last player to touch the ball.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by ScottParks
Mark, just to clarify, I don't think I said you had to have "team control in the front court" as a requirement. I said they had "team control" in the "front court", which was a statement of fact.

I wasn't referring to your post, but to the statement in the original post.

[ScottParks]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

I wasn't referring to your post, but to the statement in the original post.

OK, thanks