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Sat Jun 03, 2000, 04:56am
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...is this an illegal dribble? Two scenarios. A1 begins his dribble for about two seconds, then the ball goes off his foot into a flat roll, on the run once he picks up the ball he continues to dribble to the goal. Is this legal? Play 2 The player is passed the ball, boguls the ball, (no control) then the ball goes off his foot into a flat roll, on the run once he picks up the ball he continues to dribble to the goal. Is this legal? I know the key to the call is "control" and if somehow the player could pound the ball to create a bounce, but I see it done so much with no call...
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Sat Jun 03, 2000, 05:51am
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Euro,
The keys in both of these plays is the word "muff". You will find it mentioned alot in your case books. In play 2 I have a double dribble, because the player had established control and then when he dribbles off his foot and retrieves, that equals a catch and he can't dribble again. In play 2 control was never established and I allow the player to dribble because initial player control wasn't there.
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Sat Jun 03, 2000, 02:18pm
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quote: Which one of those is play 1?
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Sat Jun 03, 2000, 08:19pm
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quote:
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Mon Jun 05, 2000, 10:31pm
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You guys are brutal! A simple typo gets all of these replies? You can pick out what he meant in the context of his statement. Are you guys in here to discuss basketball officiating, or to correct typos and bad english?!!!!!!
At any rate, PLAY 1 is a double dribble. PLAY 2 is a no call.
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Tue Jun 06, 2000, 12:14am
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OK - Now what if play 1 is modified slightly?
A1 is dribbling the ball. The ball goes off of A1's foot and rolls along the ground. A1 hits the top of the rolling ball with the heel of the hand to get the ball bouncing and thus continue the dribble. Since A1 does not pick up the ball again, then this would not be double dribble. True? David
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Tue Jun 06, 2000, 01:09pm
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Boy, I can't say for sure that I ever saw someone try that, but if he/she did I bet I called it a double-dribble. The book isn't real clear on this point, but it does define a dribble as movement caused by a player in control who BATS or PUSHES the ball to the floor once or more. That implies to me that the ball is at least bouncing. So, if a ball that deflects off my foot bounces away, even on a low bounce, I can continue the bouncing of the ball by pushing it to the floor again. That would simply be an interrupted dribble and I would be legal. But, if the ball rolls along the floor, I'd have to say the dribble is finished because it's not bouncing any longer. After all, I can't imagine anyone calling it a dribble if someone pushes the ball along the floor without making it bounce. So, if I then tap the ball to get it bouncing again, I would consider that initiating a new dribble--violation. I could, of course, pick it up without violating.
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Tue Jun 06, 2000, 03:13pm
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Todd, I have to disagree. what does the book say about ending the dribble?
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Tue Jun 06, 2000, 08:14pm
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I also disagree with Todd's ruling. A second (illegal/double) dribble can not be started if the first dribble has not ended. A dribble, even interrupted, does not end until the player catches the ball, a defender bats the ball, or the ball becomes dead (foul, other violatoin, etc.).
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Wed Jun 07, 2000, 02:15pm
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I understand the disagreements, to a point. As I said, the rule book is not particularly clear on this point, and I DID read what it says about ending a dribble. But it still seems to me that a dribble entails a bouncing ball, which does not occur if the ball is rolling. If a player is unable to catch up to the ball quickly enough to continue the dribble by keeping it bouncing (I know, that's MY interpretation of what a dribbled ball is supposed to do), then (again, in MY mind) the dribble has ended. What if the ball only barely rolls and then comes to a stop on the court (not likely, but . . .)? Is that still an interrupted dribble? Either way, in order to get the ball bouncing again, the player would have to "start" it bouncing by tapping it on the top, which sure seems like starting another dribble to me. The rule and case books aren't really much help, since both refer to bouncing balls and don't offer this scenario. That's where I'm coming from, though. Other thoughts or interpretations?
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Wed Jun 07, 2000, 03:49pm
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quote: We had a long discussion on this topic last year (on this or another board). IIRC, someone actually went to someone on the rules committee on this and the answer was that it was an interrupted dribble. I think that in the case first presented, the player was actually "steering" the ball down the court as he tried to regain control.
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Sat Jun 10, 2000, 03:44pm
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That almost give you another situation that is really hard to interpret. Can a player roll/guide the ball without being considered a "travel" (since he doesn't have possession or is his guiding the ball showing control. I'm not even sure if there's any strategic advantage with this move. Has anyone seen it done? **This makes me think about why a team will roll the ball from the end line while the clock is stopped...to gain better strategic position? to wait for a defensive hole to open while sparring valuable second??? Do coaches look for loopoles to apply these circus plays???
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Sat Jun 10, 2000, 05:27pm
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quote: Rolling the ball while the clock is stopped is a tactic used to be able to have the clock not start until the ball is the maximum distance up the court as possible. By rolling, the offensive team can control the balance between ball position when they pick it up and when the clock starts. This is not a "circus trick", but a legitimate play that has been used for a long time. You don't see it as much in high school as you might because the clock does not stop after made baskets.
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