7 seconds remaining in the quarter. Team A to shoot two free throws. 1st free throw attempted and missed, team B rebounds and takes it the length of the floor and scores as time runs out. Team A coach recognizes that the second free throw wasn't attempted.

What do you do? Wipe off team B's field goal. Put up 7 seconds? Re-shoot the 2nd free throw?

Thanks in advance.

It would be easy to say....take the points by B off the board, put the 7 seconds back on the clock, and shoot the 2nd free throw and play on. Unfortunately, even though this would be the most fair thing to do, it would be incorrect.

This would be a correctable error (2-10-1-a. failure to award a merited free throw). Therefore you would go back and shoot the free throw.

However, because of 2-10-5, which states....Points scored, consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified, you can't do a "do over".

Therefore, in your senerio, count the basket by B, go back and shoot the last free throw by A, and the period is over.

First of all, if you know there are two shots, you blow the whistle as soon as B takes off with the ball. Having said that, if you missed it, you put 7 seconds back on the clock, wipe out B's basket, put A back on the line for the second shot, and play it from there. B was not entitled to the ball on the missed first shot, the clock should not have started, etc.

This does seem like an odd situation.
7 seconds is an eternity in basketball. Was team A guarding team B? Was there any communication between the officials? Was there a TO before the FT?
I am not sure why you would not "do over." In theory, the ball is still "dead" because the second free throw was not attempted. What would make it difficult would be if the two teams played the last 7 seconds, the officials positioned themselves for the last 7 seconds, and not until the game was over and the officials were notified prior to "leaving the visual confines of the court" about the un awarded FT. I would not want to be in that position.

If you said one and one when it should have been two, the correctable error rules would apply and the points would stand. Ball was live when the first shot missed. If you said two shots and B rebounded the first, the ball was never live and I say take the points off and re-do.

This is especially true if A did not contest the rebound because it was the first of two shots.

This is a correctable error (NFHS R2-S10-A1a and A2). The quarter ends with after A1 shoots his second free throw. This free throw will be shot with no one on the line. Under no circumstances is time to be put back on the clock. See NFHS R2-S10-A5.

This would also apply to a game played under NCAA Men's/Women's rules but I do not have my NCAA rules book in front of me for the appropriate rule references.

There are reasons that they print rule books and case books. You can't just do things because they seem right. This is a correctable error. Everything that happened must stay and you go back and shoot the remaining free throw with no time left on the clock and the lane empty

I agree, if nobody was aware of the error until the coach of team A pointed it out to the officials (how embarrassing!) However, if I'm aware of it, I blow the whistle immediately, and we shoot the second shot, and go on from there. How the hell two officials could not realize this until after the coach told them is beyond me.

Just to be clear....we count B's basket, right?

Don't necessarily agree that it would be more "fair" to take away the points that B earned with everyone on the floor playing a live ball . . . here, B ended up with the ball and 7 seconds and A got the free throw to which it was entitled -- seems pretty fair to me, and not conditioned on what happened. The "do over" theory would encourage gamesmanship in objecting -- wait and see what happens. (Though I concede there are bad results from the rule as it stands, in this scenario, this seems like themost fair result.)

(And to answer canuckrefguy, Bigwhistle is right that the basket counts.)

It seems like we are talking about two different things here.
1. Team B rebounds the ball, and Team A plays defense. Team B sets up a play for a shot and scores horn sounds. As the officials head off the court, Team A coach says "Hey, wait a minute. Weren't we supposed to shoot 2?" At that point the officials have no choice but to have that player shoot the extra free throw with no time on the clock.

2. Team B rebounds the ball. Advances the ball, shoots and scores as time expires. All the while Team A's coach is screaming for the second shot OR Team A is standing around the FT lane waiting for the second shot. In this situation, I am not sure why you would not just bring the ball back, wipe off the FG and play the second shot. Obviously, the clock started before it was supposed to, in which case if you have definite knowledge and can restore the clock. The basket would be wiped out because the ball is not "live" until the second free throw is attempted, therefore you could not have the other team score a basket.

To me these are two different cases. Otherwise, as I coach I would tell my team to ALWAYS rebound the first shot, throw it long and shoot the lay up before the official blows his/her whistle.

I got it: 2-10a. A.R. 9 is exactly to the point:

A.R. 9. B1 pushes A1 during an unsuccessful try. A1 is awarded two free throws. The first free throw by A1 is successful, after which B2 takes the ball out of bounds under Team A?s basket and passes to B3, who passes to B4 for an uncontested field goal in Team B?s basket. The captain of Team A then calls to the attention of an official that A1 did not receive a second free throw. RULING: The goal by B4 shall count. A1 shall be permitted to attempt the second free throw with no players lined up along the free-throw lane. The ball shall then be awarded to Team A out of bounds at the end line nearer Team B?s basket and the thrower-in shall be permitted to run the end line. This was the point where the game was stopped to correct the error.

Thank you. I agree 100%.

Food for thought:
 

If the Lead visually and verbally indicates the number of throws to be administered "2" ... and then B rebounds the first shot and passes it downcourt...

(Playing devil's advocate)
Should an official consider it as an unsportsmanlike action (10-3-7a); ... preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.

If you go with this ruling.... a correctable error is not even under consideration.

Unfortunately, TWO officials let this one slide WAY TOO LONG..... and it would be an extremely difficult position to take.
Comments?

Re: Food for thought:
 

Could an official do this? Yes.

Should an official do this? Only in the most egregious instances.

Re: Food for thought:
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by williebfree
[B]I kinda think once you've got 7 seconds gone by it looks a lot more like Fletch's No. than No. 2 . . . In No. 2, obviously, one would hope that the whistle would get blown long before the ball made it to the other end of the court . . . but if the official chops the clock, both officials follow the play down court and signal a good basket, and signal the end of the quarter, then I think, despite the unfairness, the rules require use of the correctable error rule because that is exactly what happened: the officials made a correctable (and terribly embarassing) error. (And I do agree that in No. 2, the result is not particularly fair.)

A simliar play was discussed on the NFHS board. A case play does exist, but I don't think it's all encompassing. In the play described, I would propbably go with the correctable error, per the case book. But what if B simply dribbles down the court and with 5 or 3 or 1 second(s) left, one of the officials realizes we should have shot 2?


http://www.nfhs.org/Forum/nfhs/Forum3/HTML/000678.html

Interesting discussion
 

After thorough mental debate (this lasted about .03 nanoseconds :D), I have decided this:

Put seven second on the clock clearing the lane for the 2nd shot and then (Made or missed FT) award the ball to B on the endline. IMO, this is the most appropriate solution.

UNLESS Team A did not compete for the rebound on the 1st FT. Then I would go with seven seconds, and play-on with the 2nd FT.

That is my story and I am sticking to it. :)

Re: Interesting discussion
 

Hmm. Is there any conceiveable rule basis for that?

Re: Interesting discussion
 

With all due respect: WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!

Read my post of Jan. 22, 2003, 02:50pm. This is a correctable error than can be corrected. The error was discovered before the dead ball/live ball/clock requirements expired. The rules specifically state that it is a point of interruption correction. NO time is to be put back on the clock.

Lotto in his posting of Jan. 22, 2003, 08:20pm gives an NCAA Men's/Women's Approved Ruling that covers this play. I do not have my rules books in front of me but is also an NFHS Casebook Play for the situation that started this thread as well as a FIBA Casebook Play and the results of all three are the same; the definition of a correctable error in the FIBA rules book is the same, word for word, as the definition in the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's rules. If fact the only difference in all three codes is how the NFHS handles the correction if there was no change of possession.

Furthermore, the fact that the period ended and then the correctable error was discovered has no bearing on the play. Lets look at the play point by point.

1) Two free throws were awarded.

2) Only one free throw was shot and it was missed.

3) By rule the first free throw of a multiple throw situation becomes dead when the free throw is either made or when it is obvious that it is not successful.

4) In this situation the officials made two errors: 1) not awarding the second free throw (the correctable error) and 2) allowing the ball to remain "live" (not a correctable error).

5) When the "live" ball (the missed free throw) was touched by a player on the court, the clock stopped.

6) The ball then remained live for the remainder of the period.

7) When the period ended the ball became dead. This was the first dead ball after the clock had started after the error.

8) The error was then discovered before the ball became live after the first dead ball after the clock had started after the error. Therefore, the correctable error was discovered during the allowable time frame and therefore could be corrected by A1 shooting one free throw with no players occupying spaces along the free throw lane.

9) The time period to correct this error would end when the next period starts under the following situations: a) If the next period is to start with an AP throw-in, when the ball would be placed at the disposal of the team (who has the AP arrow) for the throw-in. b) If the next period is to start with a jump ball, when the ball leaves the hands of the official who is conducting the jump ball (NFHS and FIBA: the Referee; NCAA Men's/Women's: the Referee or his/her designee). c) If there is a technical foul during the dead ball period between the end of playing time of the previous period and the start of next period, when the ball is placed at the disposal of the free throw shooter for the first free throw.

Re: Re: Interesting discussion
 

I made a typo below in Item (5). At the end of the sentence it should read: the clock started.

Follow up Q
 

Mark sets it all forth pretty clearly. But a follow up Q:

Let's assume this was the end of the fourth quarter, and (until the error is noticed) the score ends up tied. The error is noticed after the break before the OT, as the ref is walking out for the center jump. Is the FT part of the 4th Q (i.e. the game is over if the player makes the basket -- which, of course, would infuriate the other team since they would have gone for a 3 if they knew they were down by 3 rather than 2), or is part of OT (which, of course, would infuriate the team forced to play OT since they center jump with a one point lead making OT seem silly).

(My gut tells me it's the first option, but am curious what the experts think, and am wondering if y'all have flak jackers for either of those scenarios?)

If you haven't read the thread posted by Tony (BktBallRef)
do so, he makes an excellent argument for why this should NOT be a 2-10 correctable error which hinges on 2 things:

1- the ball remains dead after the first of multiple FT's.
2- This is an error by the defense, no different than when the offense takes the ball OOB after a made basket.

Here it is:

Quote:

Tony's Post

I disagree. This is not "failure to award a merited FT." This is a misttake by the defense. If the administering official indicated that it was a two shot situation, the the ball becomes dead after the FT. It doesn't become live just because B grabs the ball and dribbles down court. The only thing you have is possibly a technical foul on B for delay of game, if you rule that the defense did this intentionally, which I woulkd be reluctant to do unless they did it more than once.
Now, if the official indicates 1 shot or 1 & 1 and this same scenario occurs, then this is a correctable error situation, the lane would be cleared for the shot, and B would get the ball back. But the poster said it was a 2 shot sitch. The question is, "How many FTs did the official indicate?"

This is no different than a situation where a team scores a basket, grabs the ball out of the basket, completes a throw-in and scores again or in a situation where the official places the ball on the floor and the wrong team grabs it and inbounds it. The situations are correctable but are not correctable errors because they are not official's errors. They are errors committed by a team who mistakenly thought they were entitled to the ball.

Do you see my point? If you allow B to keep the ball in this sitaution, then you allow then to rebound a first miss of a 2 shot foul at anytime, dribble up the floor and keep the ball.

Re: Follow up Q
 

The rules specifically state the no penalty can carry over to the next period. Since the error was discovered within the allowable time frame the game is over if A1 makes his free throw.