NFHS: subvarsity game recently in a less then modern gym and the basket's net seemed to flop up on the rim 4 or 5 times in the first half. Each time we stopped the clock and and a kid would jump up to fix the net - always at the same end, but obviously not intentionaly.
At half time I initiated a dicusion with my partner as to how we would deal with this if it happened at the end of the game which was close.
How is this handled elsewhere? when under 5 seconds to play? do you allow subs with this stopage?

thanks
GTW

I never stop the clock to fix the net. If it's really a problem, tell the home coach to put a kid at that end and have him fix it every time the ball goes to the other end of the floor. Never stop the clock to fix the net.

And really, how many times have you ever seen a shot affected by the net being flipped up?

Chuck

There is no rule justification to fix the net. Tell site managment to fix it by either using starch to stiffen it or cut a few loops off the end.

Mregor

The shot that is affected is the shot where.....
 

.....the ball rolls around the rim and hits the net that is flipped up over the rim.

I've rarely run into a whip net in prep ball, but I've seen it the last few weeks at the rec league I've been working.

I stop play and fix it. The clock (since we play a running clock) keeps running.

Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jan 22nd, 2003 at 10:36 AM]

Re: The shot that is affected is the shot where.....
 

I know that's the scenario that is most "likely". But really, in all honesty, how many times have you seen it affect the shot? Me, I don't think I ever have in a game.

Chuck

Chuck,
That is sort of a catch 22 situation in a way. I have never had a shot affected during a game because of a net, because the net usually gets fixed. During practices etc. I have seen it affect the shot on several times. On the other hand one of the things that was fun growing up was to try and "hang the net" and then swish the next one through to untangle the net. Ok so I am easily amused.

Forget about whether the net causes a ball to bounce away at an inopportune moment. A hung net definitely impacts the view that a player has of the target by distorting their view of the rim and the basket - it clearly impacts the shot. When you are playing a fast paced game where shots are coming from anywhere on the ocurt, you need to be able to catch and see a clear target immediately. A hung net prevents this and may cause a miss.

The net should be fixed every time.

Coach, I always appreciate your posts and your perspective from the bench. But I played competitively in high school and recreationally for many years after that, and I can honestly say that the net up or down NEVER affected my view of the basket. (No snide jokes about my height, JR ;) ) I have never even heard that proposed as a reason to fix the net. I had shots bounce funny b/c of a hung net during practice (mostly b/c guys used to get a kick out of intentionally flipping the net up as tight as they could get it. Yes, we were also easily amused), but never in a game.

The clock should, IMHO, never be stopped to fix the net.

Chuck

I fix the net. Most places that I ref, do not have someone available to pull it down while we are on the other end.

It may not affect the shot but like Hawks Coach said, it affects the shooter. It also may be actually be stuck on the rim. Next shot may not be able to go through the net. I'd rather stop play and fix it, if I see it.

I would allow subs to come in but I don't think I would stop the clock with less than 5 seconds to answer your qestion Troward.

mj

SECTION 10 BASKET SIZE, MATERIAL
ART. 1 . . . Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

A hung net does not meet the criteria of the above. FIX IT - by rule.

I think you're stretching the rule a little bit. But fine. I never said not to fix it. I only said don't stop the clock to fix it. Find a kid to throw a ball up through the basket while the teams are at the other end. Or have a kid with a broom poke at it. Whatever. Fix it, I have no problem with it. But do not, at any time, interrupt the game for something as minor as a hung net. You want to talk about "game interruptors"? Jeez! This is even lower on my priority list than 3-seconds :D

Chuck

Nope, not gonna do it. During the game, I don't stop the clock to fix the net. If someone wants to jump up and fix it fine, but I'm not stopping the clock to fix the net. If the net is getting hung, it's too long. Fix it at the half.

Mregor

And when it is the visitor's basket in the first half. . .

I guess we'll just let the home team have it right for their half. No advantage there.

How about a neutral court and it is only one basket. You are going to force one team to play with a bad net and allow a fix at halftime to allow the other team a clean target? Makes no sense to me.

Just want to add:

I agree with Chuck in the situation where the nets flip up repeatedly. I'll stop play the first time and fix it. On the second time I'll stop play, but make sure I have someone to fix it if it happens a third time.

I've heard that in the old days, this was a tactic teams would use to slow down teams that liked to run. Wonder if anyone still does this.

Rich

If your shooters are good enough to not only hit the jumper but to plan and succeed in hanging the net, I'd give them that advantage!

The tactic I was referring to was to put longer, "whippier" nets on the courts so that shots that went through cleanly were more likely to flip the nets.

Maybe it's all in my imagination, though :)

Rich

Let's put the shoe on the other foot coach. How are you going to react to this? Your opponent scores and hangs the net. Your player being properly coached grabs the ball right away and makes a long pass down the court. Do you want me to blow the whistle now? Or should I just wait until the team that has the hung net has the ball? Heck, I might forget by then. Or what if they steal your long pass and have a layup at the hung net. Do I blow it now? My solution is to not blow it for a hung net. That way I can piss everyone off and noone can accuse me of favoring the other.:D

I disagree that it's a disadvantage at all. But for the sake of argument, I'll stipulate that there's a disadvantage to a "snagged" net.

Have somebody fix it while play continues at the other end. Are you opposed to this solution for some reason? What if the net gets caught after every basket? Would you have the official stop the clock every time? That would be ridiculous.

Just have home management provide somebody to get the net down when it sticks. Is there something wrong with that solution?

Chuck

Hawks Coach: I usually find your insight and commentary informative and accurate but here you must be just having a bad day (brain cramps maybe). The associations I work for make it a point not to fix a hung net until an appropriate opportunity to do so (time out, quarter ending, ball out of bounds at that end, etc.). We don't stop the game to do it.

OK,
 

I have never seen a situation where the net was not "de-snagged". While your local group has a position fine but it is certainly strange to see these posts.

EVERY game I have EVER worked if a net was hung up it was handled one of two ways:

1) When the ball went the opposite direction a "ball boy" would try quickly to disengage the net (usually with a second ball). This is bad because if the ball is quickly reversed a non-participant might get caught into the play.

2) When the clock "stopped" the next time we would "unflip" the net. If play came to the "flipped" end and there had not been a chance to do either the "ball boy" fix or the dead ball fix . . . we ALWAYS stop the clock and correct the error.

I am surprised that any of you do not, under any circumstances, stop the clock to fix this issue.

A quick comment to Frony:

I was more used to seeing coaches use nets that were "tight" at the bottom that slowed "considerably" a made goal so that their defense could get back into position.

I just don't remember EVER seeing a flip net used on purpose.

See ya on TV soon.

Tee

THAT'S it, Tee. I knew it was something like that.

If you count public access TV, I may already be there since a lot of the local towns show the varsity games. :)

You probably don't get those channels in Oregon, though.

Rich

Re: OK,
 

I agree, Tim. This is (or at least, used to be) the more common tactic. I'm still not stopping the clock, tho :D

Chuck

I think I have a different viewpoint, not a braincramp. I have always seen the net unstuck, with limited exceptions. Certainly if you can do so without stopping the game, do it. (I have sen the trail in 3-man jump and pull it down even when there was no pressure on the ball!)

You can find many reasons not to, and I am not going to fall on my sword over this one. For instance, the defense inbounds and starts a break before you have even reacted to the stuck net - shouldn't it back for the net in this case. Another would be when you are dealing with a press and the ball is in the corner trapped already. I am more referring to the hung net and a team is about to walk the ball up against no pressure - stop it and make it right if necessary (no ball boy, broom holder, etc.).

In the old days(20/30 years go),this situation was covered in the casebook/approved rulings and officials manual for both NCAA and NFHS.We were told that we could only have the net flipped down when the clock was stopped and the ball was dead.If a ballboy or player wanted to grab it while play was going on,that was fine-but we were not to stop the game to flip a net down. I don't have a clue when they removed this reference or why.Personally,I agree with Chuck.It's a game interupter if you stop the game just to get the net down.

Didn't we recently hear something from the fed concerning NOT stopping the game to fix the net? Anyway, I don't.

Did they hang nets from those peach baskets, Jurassic?


(Insert an inane animated gif here :D)

Did they hang nets from those peach baskets, Jurassic?

(Insert an inane animated gif here :D) [/B][/QUOTE]Nah,I'll insert a nane one:
http://www.uselessgraphics.com/mrbean.gif

No wonder it's so frickin' cold lately. Even Hell's frozen over!! :D

Chuck

Are You Kidding?
 

Blow your whistle...give the kids a break and fix the net....and resume play. No subs in the last minute (NCAA) as this is not a timer's error ar an inadvertent whistle.

Everyone saying that they have never seen it effect a shot but we all know what folks....tere is always is always a first time and I don't want to be part of that....embarrasing!

Whoa there,BoSoxBoy! It's very,very seldom that I don't agree with you on a rule,interpretation or application.It's the other things that we don't agree on-like your baseball team.Granted,I do have to say it is also kinda fun just to dump on ya for no particular reason.Fun for me,anyway.:D

And for the rest of us readers also!!!

Re: Are You Kidding?
 

NCAA, take another look at 3-4.6 in this years' rule book - timer's error or IW are the only reasons for which you would not let in a sub on a whistle in the last minute. If you choose to stop the game and fix the net, you would let subs in.

I don't stop the clock to fix the net. I don't have to. I have a partner that always does it. :(

Whew! Finally got through reading all the posts concerning this seemingly small item.
Wow! I guess I'm going to have to include this in my pre-game from now on.

Actually, I was in a gym a few weeks ago watching the JV boys, before my Varsity game, and I noticed the net on one end of the gym kept getting hung up. I told my partner this might be a problem in our game...it was...twice.

The Coach for the Home team even mentioned it during our introductions...alerting us about this "cheap" net. He seemed legitimately embarrassed about it. The Coach said he just put these up, and was having some problems with them getting "hung up". I was the Referee and told him we "had noticed it". I don't remember telling him what we would do about it...but just acknowledged that indeed the nets were hanging up.

I didn't really think it was that big of a deal either way actually. If the net gets hung up and I notice it before the other team gets possession I usually blow my whistle and fix the darn thing. If I happen to miss it and we are again back at this basket...well, we just play on untill someone makes a basket and it fixes itself, or fix it at a dead ball period.

I don't really like the idea of people running around on the court that aren't playing, fixing things...I don't know, maybe it's just me.

Dude

Here is a thought. (i've stayed out of this one for way too long) We are on the court fifteen minute prior to the contest (supposedly) observing players. When the players are shooting around in warmups it should take all of two minutes (that leaves you 13 for administration duties) to notice one or both nets are getting hung up. Solution: a pair of scissors (I have yet to see a medkit w/out one) and about three snips of the bottom knots on the back end of the net. Problem solved before the game even starts. With this action taking you (or hopefully site mgmnt)about 2-3 minutes we still have ten to observe the players have capn's meeting etc. I have done this twice in the last two years and it has worked wonders. Good preventative off. in my book.