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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 01:07am
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First half of game, clock is at 1:37 (running) after a made basket by team A. The ball bounces away onto the court, and the covering official sounds his whistle. There were subs at the table, but I thought I remembered a rule change this year regarding subs and inadvertent whistles, so I didn't blow the horn until the official nearest the table beckoned the players onto the court.
I asked the R before he went out for halftime, and was just plain confused by the answers I got both at the end of the half and right before the 2nd half (don't even remember them that well). I went home and came across 3-4.5 and 3-4.6. Do these rules mean that if the official blows the whistle and stops the clock (except an inadvertent whistle/timer's mistake) at any point in the game, that subs may come in?  BTW, Chuck (and any other folks who work NCAA in Massachussetts), do you ever work games at Williams College in Williamstown?
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"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all." 
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 01:22am
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As far as I know, the limitation only applies to the last minute of the game.
From the NCAA 2002-03 Rules Changes bulletin: Rule 5-9.10: Substitution shall not be allowed when an official stops the game clock after a successful field goal in the last 59.9 seconds of the second half or the last 59.9 seconds of any extra period when an administrative mistake or inadvertent whistle occurs. Rationale: By rule, substitutions were allowed in these infrequent situations in previous years, which the committee felt was not fair. In your case, from what I can see, because the official blew his whistle after the ball rolled away, subs are allowed, and would continue to be okay. I think it would be the same even if it did occur with less than 1:00 to go, as this is not an inadvertent whistle or an administrative error situation. Subs are allowed during a dead ball. The ball is dead when an official blows his whistle. [Edited by canuckrefguy on Jan 19th, 2003 at 12:24 AM]
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 06:14am
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Canuckref is right. The prohibition is only during the last minute of the game when the clock is stopped for a made basket.
And yes, I'm up at Williams usually once or twice a year.  (The frownie is for the drive, not for the level of play) Why do you ask?Chuck
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 10:02am
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Quote:
I actually found out over Christmas break that my best friend plays for Williams' JV squad. Figured I could tell you to "call it both ways" to favor his team! 
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"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 11:00am
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Quote:
My understanding is with under 1:00 to go in the game, if you blow the whistle to retrieve the ball when its just bouncing around, it technically is an inadvertant whistle, because you had no reason to blow it, since the clock was stopped. I was told the best way to handle that is, if the ball gets loose afterwards, no matter where it goes (unless of course its a delay of game by one of the teams) that you would just get the ball, not blow your whistle, give the ball to the inbounder and continute play. If you dont blow your whistle you dont even have to deal with the technicalities of the rule. Just my thoughts. . .
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 04:00pm
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The latest NCAA teleconference bulletins cleared it up even more...if the ball does bounce away in a "large area" it is still OK for the official to blow the whistle, go get ball, and let subs in...if it is just bouncing to the bleachers, paxsonref is right on...
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 11:17pm
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Quote:
Is this on the web with the other NCAA officiating bulletins?
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 11:27pm
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Just found the bulletin - on the women's side. The rule is written the same way for men; does anyone know if the interpretation is the same, too?
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"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Mon Jan 20, 2003, 12:25am
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Believe the interpretation is the same.
Bottom line is it's a game management thing, depending on how far the ball gets away from the sideline. Paxsonref had a good take on it, I think. Not sure if I would classify it as an inadvertent whistle, though.
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Mon Jan 20, 2003, 09:29am
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Inadvertent Whistle
According to the NCAA Bulletin, if you blow your whistle in the last minute of a game or OT in order to retrieve a loose ball it is no longer to be considered an inadvertent whistle, thus substitutes are allowed. Not sure where paxsonref officiates but I have been in some college gyms where the ball can roll a long way from the basket. In these cases you have to stop the clock in order to retrieve the ball. What are you going to do if it's a 1 point ballgame with 3 or 4 seconds left and the losing team has to retrieve the ball after a made basket and it is rolling 50 feet away from the basket?
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Mon Jan 20, 2003, 09:34am
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NCAAREF,
my point is, the clock is stopped in the last minute of the game, so there is no reason to rush to it, you dont really have any reason to blow your whistle in that situation, and it gives an advantage to any team that has subs sitting at the table if you let them in. . . I think that was the reasoning for the NCAA anyway. . .
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Mon Jan 20, 2003, 09:39am
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Found this on the NCAA website, take note of the Play situation at the bottom.
Rule 3-4.6, BR-51. Clarification that the only time substitutions are not allowed in the last 59.9 seconds is on a timer's mistake or an inadvertent whistle. If the whistle is blown for other reasons substitutions are allowed. Examples: Clarification of a two- or three-point goal Net getting caught up on basket Correctable error Book error (scorer forgets to inform official of player's fifth foul) Injury, blood, disqualification If a timeout is requested when play is stopped for a timer's mistake or an inadvertent whistle, substitutions will be allowed. Play: Ball rolls past the bleachers on an open ended court during the last 59.9 seconds of the second half and the official blows the whistle. Ruling: Official should deem this an inadvertent whistle and substitutions should not be allowed to enter the game. The clock is stopped. There is no need to blow the whistle
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Mon Jan 20, 2003, 10:40am
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Paxson,
For women, at least, that play has been revoked. Take a look at Bulletin #2: http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/baske...3/20030110.pdf
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Mon Jan 20, 2003, 11:17am
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Quote:
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Mon Jan 20, 2003, 01:47pm
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Quote:
 Chuck
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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