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-   -   Foul on Rebound Tip (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/70214-foul-rebound-tip.html)

jc147119 Thu May 19, 2011 01:21pm
Foul on Rebound Tip
 
A1 has a shot at goal and misses. Ball hits the rim and as A2 attempts to rebound tip the the ball toward the basketball, B2 hits A2's arm. Foul is called. How do you administer the foul. Neither team is in the bonus. Is your answer different for the different leagues of play?

tref Thu May 19, 2011 01:26pm
All levels of play:

If the official judges that A2 attempted a try/tip when B2 committed the foul, FTs should be shot.

Jay R Thu May 19, 2011 01:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc147119 (Post 759650)
A1 has a shot at goal and misses. Ball hits the rim and as A2 attempts to rebound tip the the ball toward the basketball, B2 hits A2's arm. Foul is called. How do you administer the foul. Neither team is in the bonus. Is your answer different for the different leagues of play?
If the official deems the tip an attempted field goal (which it is in your description), it is a shooting foul.

bob jenkins Thu May 19, 2011 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 759652)
All levels of play:

If the official judges that A2 attempted a try/tip when B2 committed the foul, FTs should be shot.
That's true if A2 has contacted the ball before B2 commits the foul. Otherwise, it's a common foul, no try, A2 gets the ball or FTs depending on the bonus situation.

Adam Thu May 19, 2011 01:34pm
We've been instructed to give the benefit on these plays to judging the tip to have begun; same thing if the offensive player fouls a defender while attempting the tip.

Not sure I agree, but it's how we've been instructed.

jc147119 Thu May 19, 2011 01:39pm
Can any tip/tap whilst trying to rebound, truly be a guided attempt at goal? Is the player not just attempting to get the ball and hoping it goes in? This is a tricky judgment call, IMO.

tref Thu May 19, 2011 01:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc147119 (Post 759659)
Can any tip/tap whilst trying to rebound, truly be a guided attempt at goal? Is the player not just attempting to get the ball and hoping it goes in? This is a tricky judgment call, IMO.
Not if you know definitions... 4-41

Players usually rebound with 2 hands & tap with 1.

Raymond Thu May 19, 2011 01:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc147119 (Post 759659)
Can any tip/tap whilst trying to rebound, truly be a guided attempt at goal? Is the player not just attempting to get the ball and hoping it goes in? This is a tricky judgment call, IMO.
Actually it's pretty easy if you have watched enough basketball. Don't overthink it.

jc147119 Thu May 19, 2011 02:03pm
I am asking the question because in the pro game, a foul on the tip is not awarded two shots as it is not deemed a controlled attempt at the basket but in college the benefit of the doubt is give to it being a legitimate attempt at goal. Thanks for all your feedback.

tref Thu May 19, 2011 02:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc147119 (Post 759667)
I am asking the question because in the pro game, a foul on the tip is not awarded two shots as it is not deemed a controlled attempt at the basket but in college the benefit of the doubt is give to it being a legitimate attempt at goal. Thanks for all your feedback.
Are we talking NBA or some other pro league?
Rules reference/caseplay please...

If a foul happens here:

The only type of field goal which may be scored if the game clock is at :00.2 or :00.1 is a “tip-in” or “high lob.”

are you saying no FTs will be shot?

APG Thu May 19, 2011 02:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc147119 (Post 759667)
I am asking the question because in the pro game, a foul on the tip is not awarded two shots as it is not deemed a controlled attempt at the basket but in college the benefit of the doubt is give to it being a legitimate attempt at goal. Thanks for all your feedback.
In the NBA, this play is going to be judged the same way. If the foul is before the trip, no basket and simply a loose ball foul. If the ball gets tipped, and then the foul, and the ball goes into the basket, the tipper is going to the line to shoot one. Again, this is all a judgement call.

Quote:
The term is also used to include the flight of the ball until it becomes dead or is touched by a player. A tap during a jump ball or rebound is not considered a field goal attempt. However, anytime a live ball is in flight toward the rim from the playing court, the goal, if made, shall count, even if time expires or the official’s whistle sounds.
I think there's a difference between a simple tap that you're talking about, and the tip that's a try for goal/FGA. If you have watched basketball for any about of time, it's obvious when a player is tipping the ball to score. A "controlled tip" can be in contact with the hand for a very short period of time, as in the example tref gave you were there's less than .3 on the clock. Other times, it's obvious that a player is just hitting the ball. Here, in the NBA, you'll get your simple loose ball foul unless the ball happens to go in.

Multiple Sports Thu May 19, 2011 06:36pm
A tip is a tap is a try ........

I believe it was tref that said know your definitions !!!!!!

Now for you "rules gurus". .02 remaining A1 has ball OTB. He throws the ball towards the basket. A2 gets fouled as he "tips" the ball towards the basket.

Is this a shooting foul or just the bonus if the team is in the bonus??

btaylor64 Thu May 19, 2011 06:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 759679)
In the NBA, this play is going to be judged the same way. If the foul is before the trip, no basket and simply a loose ball foul. If the ball gets tipped, and then the foul, and the ball goes into the basket, the tipper is going to the line to shoot one. Again, this is all a judgement call.



I think there's a difference between a simple tap that you're talking about, and the tip that's a try for goal/FGA. If you have watched basketball for any about of time, it's obvious when a player is tipping the ball to score. A "controlled tip" can be in contact with the hand for a very short period of time, as in the example tref gave you were there's less than .3 on the clock. Other times, it's obvious that a player is just hitting the ball. Here, in the NBA, you'll get your simple loose ball foul unless the ball happens to go in.
Just want to be clear with the rules (NBA)... If you take your first scenario- it is irrelevant whether the foul occurred prior to or after the tip. If he misses the shot no FTs will be rewarded unless that team is in the penalty. A tip is NOT a try in the NBA... ALTHOUGH if a ball in flight toward the rim goes in you still have to score it.

If the tip happens OBVIOUSLY after the player is fouled and the ball goes in, it will still be a LBF and no shots as the ball was not released or tapped toward the goal as the foul occurred or prior to the foul occurring.

BillyMac Thu May 19, 2011 09:57pm
Misty Water Colored Memories ...
 
Back in the twentieth century, when I started officiating, I believe that there was a difference between a tip and a try. If a player was fouled in the act of tipping the ball, and his team was in the bonus, then he got a one and one (no double bonus back then), if not, no free throws and his team got the ball at the closest spot to the foul. Also, I believe that there was no continuation on a tip, so if the foul occurred before the ball was released on a tip, the ball became dead, and if it went in the basket, then the goal did not count.

I'm sure that one of our "more experienced" esteemed members, or one of our very, very, very, old esteemed members, like Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., will be moseying along shortly to confirm, or deny, this assertation.

BillyMac Fri May 20, 2011 05:06pm
Memories, Light The Corners Of My Mind (But The Power Is Out) ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 759773)
Back in the twentieth century, when I started officiating, I believe that there was a difference between a tip and a try. If a player was fouled in the act of tipping the ball, and his team was in the bonus, then he got a one and one (no double bonus back then), if not, no free throws and his team got the ball at the closest spot to the foul. Also, I believe that there was no continuation on a tip, so if the foul occurred before the ball was released on a tip, the ball became dead, and if it went in the basket, then the goal did not count.
I can't remember what happened if the ball went in if the "tipper" was fouled after tipping, that is, fouled after the ball was released? Count the hoop and give a one and one if in the bonus? Count the hoop and give the ball back to the fouled team if not in the bonus? Damn, these old neurons aren't worth the gray matter that they're packed in.

Where are Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., or Jurassic Referee, when you need them?


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