Men's Church League

dsimp8 · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 03:44pm

Here in Tuscaloosa, I call my fair share of Men's church league games. While most of these guys are out there to keep in shape or keep living the dream, there are a few (well, a bunch) that think this is March Madness or the NBA Finals every night. It had gotten so bad that the leagues that I call in put in rule last year that states that 3 technicals in ANY combination (3 for Team A 0 for Team B or 2 for A and 1 for B,etc.) ends the game at whatever the score is. In one night (4 games) we had 3 games end early. Naturally the 9:00 game was the only one to go the distance. It was so bad that League Supervisors considered shutting it down. At one point in the season last year we started saying in our Pre-game-"We don't yell at you when you commit a turnover or miss a shot so don't yell at us if you think we missed a call". That helped a little as the season wore on and we are about to begin this year's season soon.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this in any other way?

twoblindrefs · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 03:51pm

Hit em where it hurts, fine them for every T, $10 for first, $25 for 2nd, and $50 for third....and everyone thereafter results in $50 a pop.....

And they don't play any future games until the fine is paid....no excuses.

The money goes to either a youth program in the town (nice way to help in this budget crisis) or goes to a party for all players who did not get a t, depending on the size of the fund at season's end.....

And refs contribute $25 a game....you gotta be nuts to call men's leagues!

South Bay HHVBC · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 03:57pm

Quote:

The money goes to either a youth program in the town......

Thats acctually a really good idea

Mark Dexter · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 03:57pm

I could see someone taking advantage of that rule.

My team is winning by one point, and 2 T's have already been called. I earn a technical foul, and now my team has the win.

I kinda like my IM league's rule - 2 ejections = an automatic forfeit - resulting in a $25 fine.

dsimp8 · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 04:02pm

this year they are going to try 2 per team. That situation did not come up last year because most of those guys wanted to play.(The rule was suspended for the tourney since it was single elimination).That 3 forfeit night the losing team committed all 9 T's.

Mregor · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 04:10pm

I filled in for someone at a church league one time (emphasis on the word ONE). One of the worst experiences ever. In the basement on a tile floor, 2 games, 20 minute clock, stopping on all whistles, small court. Final score 110-90 range. Acted like the biggest bunch of jerks your could assemble in one point at one time. It was on a Sunday right after services and I now know why they all were in church; they felt they needed to after the way the treat the refs each week. So many bad things happened that I couldn't even begin to tell them here. Suffice to say, I'll never do a church league again. I echo the comment about it sure makes HS seem like a walk in the park. That's what you get when there is no retribution. Whatever you do, whether it be fines or the like, there needs to be retribution for their actions. Without, it's pure unadultered chaos.

Mregor

Mark Padgett · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 04:10pm

Does any kind of technical count? How about not having the designated starters in the book at the proper time? What about the second delay for breaking the boundary warning?

Three of those and out seems a little harsh to me.

DownTownTonyBrown · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 04:31pm

We have a small league that uses fines quite successfully for Unsportsman-like Technicals.

$10 a T, I think. An individual's technicals are tracked and I think maybe its 3 individual technicals and you are out for the season. The guys are still not complete gentlemen but there is very little in your face stuff.

The league has a team sportsmanship award at the end of the season... perhaps that team gets the money... not sure.

oatmealqueen · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 09:27pm

The league that we have has a 3 technical rule for forfeiture, a little different than yours.
If a team gets 3 technicals (for game misconduct) not slapping backboards and the like, at that point it is a forfeit. 2 forfeits in one season, team is booted.
If any player receives 2 technicals during a game, he/she is ejected from that game, AND his/her next 2 league games. Player must also meet with league director and ask for reinstatement. Two ejections in one season, gone for the duration.
Harsher or more lenient punishments are may also be issued, but at the discretion of the league director (me)

I have a very low tolerance for that crap.

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 10:09pm

It's a shame that rec leagues have had to resort to this.

But I'm glad they've taken the proper steps.

oatmealqueen · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 10:27pm

I make and enforce my league rules most often with my officials in mind. Do I want to lose all of them because they have to take so much crap that they can't stand it?
I've been (and continue to be) there.
Players know that we do not put up with much poor behavior.
Bottom line = If you get out of hand, you are gone, and it's not easy to be reinstated.

williebfree · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 16, 2003, 11:02pm

Sounds straightfoward to me. I LIKE IT!

Now, if we could get angels to be cheerleaders at these church league games... maybe we wouldn't have such unsporting conduct.

Back In The Saddle · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 17, 2003, 02:58am

I got back into reffing because of church ball. I had a friend complain about having to work one man and running from end-line to end-line. I opened my big mouth, and next thing I know, I'm supposed to work a game with this guy to teach him mechanics.

I got hooked again, and I got myself on the schedule. I enjoy it. It's good exercise. It's a great hobby. It's my personal de-stressor. But I'm getting down a bit about working with partners who don't know the mechanics, don't know the rules, and often spend every dead ball talking to their girlfriends in the stands.

My fav, so far, was last week. They put me with a kid whose never reffed before (and it's my second game). So we go over basic mechanics: boxing in, free throw responsibilities, etc. The game is just run and gun, a lot of contact, and probably a little too out of control. Close game from start to finish. At halftime my partner quits! Goodness, I didn't think I did that badly

So I do the second half with a different young guy, whose too busy talking to his girlfriend to talk mechanics. May as well have been working alone!

Although the church league is pretty laid back, I am very excited about learning to do this right. I take it very seriously and do my best to be professional. It's not that I'm great or anything, I'm a rookie. But I'm quickly getting to the point where I want to move on and work with better officials. Is it too late in the season to get into an association and start working now? What do you folks suggest?

bard · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 17, 2003, 09:50am

I used to participate in church leagues. My experience was that a significant percentage of the participants were from outside the church. One softball team I played on only had about 4 of us that actually attended the church. I'm pretty sure a couple of the guys didn't even know where our church was! Not unexpectedly, the behavior was often not what you would expect going into a church game.

Kelvin green · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 17, 2003, 03:02pm

In the church leagues around here. If a player gets a T they have to sit out 5 minutes of game time. Second T is an ejection. They cannot participate again unless the go see a senior ecclesiastical leader and have a signed letter from him allowing them to return. Most rec leagues around here use the penalty box rule too. The five minutes carries over between games as well...