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Dan_ref Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by Pirate
I am a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the dreaded "liability" word yet in this post. Although there is no precedent that I am aware of concerning an official working solo, I can only imagine that it is a matter of time before some parent (who sees their kid injured in a game with an official working solo) sues a solo-working official. Of course, some attorney will note that the official or his/her association was negligent in not providing the required number of officials for the contest in question, thus leading or contributing to the injury. Which begs another question. Are there any associations out there that are refusing to work one-man mechanics for liability reasons? And if not, are there any lawyers out there that can elaborate on this issue?
Can't go through life worrying if you're gonna get sued.

But...I believe most game fee insurance packages only cover scheduled games. Now that I think of it I would be much more concerned with my insurance company using this as a loop hole to not pay me if I got hurt jumping in to help than I would getting sued by a parent. But I'm not gonna lose sleep over either. :)

theboys Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:16pm

We had a 6-game schedule at our high school last Saturday. Only one official showed for the Freshman games. About halfway through the first, one of the JV officials showed up. He jumped in and helped with the first and second games. Between the first and second games I heard someone comment, "Where was that guy when the game started?"

Sometime you just can't win. (I explained to the person what happened.)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Pirate
I am a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the dreaded "liability" word yet in this post. Although there is no precedent that I am aware of concerning an official working solo, I can only imagine that it is a matter of time before some parent (who sees their kid injured in a game with an official working solo) sues a solo-working official. Of course, some attorney will note that the official or his/her association was negligent in not providing the required number of officials for the contest in question, thus leading or contributing to the injury. Which begs another question. Are there any associations out there that are refusing to work one-man mechanics for liability reasons? And if not, are there any lawyers out there that can elaborate on this issue?

I am glad you brought up the "liability issue." I think that officiating any game (male or female) from the jr. H.S. level on up by oneself is an accident waiting to happen. The way today's game is played, one official cannot cover the court adequately; afterall, why do love officiating in a three-person crew.

The first time I ever officiated a game by myself, was a women's jr. college game years ago in California. My partner did not show up and I made the mistake of officiating the game myself. Fortunately, I have had to face the no partner situation only once since then and it was in an NAIA regular season's women's game. My partner took ill during halftime and was not able to come out for the second half. The athletic director wanted me to finish the game by myself. I said no. Needless to say I did not care for my position. Fortunately, one of the officials who had officiated the jr. varsity game before our game lived only a couple a miles away from the campus and we held the start of the second half until he could get there. The first half of this game had been a rough and tumble game between two long time rivals and I was not about to attempt to officiate the second half by myself.

While we all want to help the schools out, our first concern is for the safety of the players. One official cannot cover the game and put the safety of all the players first.

walter Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:40pm

I've been in this situation a couple of times when I've walked in for my varsity assignment and saw someone out there working alone. How I've handled it is I've immediately gone into to get dressed and then upon returning, at a logical break in the action, I've had the horn sounded, got the offical and the coaches together and asked if they wanted me to jump into the ball game. Someone posted that a flow has already been established, calls have been made, etc. To me, adding another official into the mix, changes that (good or bad). To me the teams have adjusted to the calls being made. Also, I have no idea what kind of game I'm walking into (i.e. how the coaches have behaved, how the game has progressed, what the tempo has been, what's been called and what hasn't, etc.). If it is after halftime, to me it's very difficult to step into the game cold. Before halftime, it is easier because there is still a lot of basketball left to be played and halftime adjustments have not been made by the teams. Either way, I let the official working alone and BOTH coaches have a say. If both coaches don't agree, I don't jump in. If only one agrees and I do jump in, I'm in the hole no matter what type of game I call from then on and the game would be disrupted because of it. That just my opinion.

JAdams Thu Jan 09, 2003 01:21pm

Varsity Guys Must Help
 
My assigners request that the varsity officials be present at the start of the JV contest for exactly this reason. The varsity officials are expected to dress as quickly as possible and be ready to take the court if necessary.

I'd say that you had a couple (three? pretty stuck-up varsity officials if they refused to help you in a solo situation.

k2explorer Thu Jan 09, 2003 03:27pm

I did worry a bit about the players being injured, so I made sure I called the game very tight from the beginning. As the game progressed, I began worrying about myself getting hurt. I'm not sure how you all feel about where a solo ref should be, it is my opinion I should be where I can see the most, in the middle of things. I had a couple close calls with big guys almost running me down. But if I had stayed to one side or middle third of the court, I would have missed a lot underneath and could have had real rough play. Any thoughts on where you should position yourself if alone?

baldy1 Thu Jan 09, 2003 04:31pm

I had the same situation happen to me a couple of years ago. The first half by myself was great I was hustling and having a great time. Both teams understood and had no trouble. At half time two of three varsity officials agreed to come out and do some three man. Boy what a mess the crowd started booing coaches and players started to get upset. At one point some of the fans yelled at the two varsity officials to get off the court and let me finish because I was doing a better job without them. I had to laugh but sounds like you did a great job. Keep up the good work.

Camron Rust Thu Jan 09, 2003 05:36pm

Re: Varsity Guys Must Help
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JAdams
My assigners request that the varsity officials be present at the start of the JV contest for exactly this reason. The varsity officials are expected to dress as quickly as possible and be ready to take the court if necessary.

That's a little overboard. If it is like here, most JV games start 1:45 before the Varsity game. I NEVER get to a game that early. For varisty games, I usually get there about 50-60min. before the game...and I'm usually the first to arrive for the varsity game. Typically, officials arrive about 45-50 minutes before varsity games. To ask an extra hour would be laughed at and would never happen for the rare occassion that the JV official is a no-show.

williebfree Thu Jan 09, 2003 06:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by k2explorer
.... I would have missed a lot underneath and could have had real rough play. Any thoughts on where you should position yourself if alone?
In WI, I would be positioned in my car seat, driving home. Not a legally-sanctioned game. The state association has deemed it inappropriately dangerous for the players. I would not be happy about not working the game, but that would be my decision.

BktBallRef Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Pirate
I am a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the dreaded "liability" word yet in this post. Although there is no precedent that I am aware of concerning an official working solo, I can only imagine that it is a matter of time before some parent (who sees their kid injured in a game with an official working solo) sues a solo-working official. Of course, some attorney will note that the official or his/her association was negligent in not providing the required number of officials for the contest in question, thus leading or contributing to the injury. Which begs another question. Are there any associations out there that are refusing to work one-man mechanics for liability reasons? And if not, are there any lawyers out there that can elaborate on this issue?
Sounds far fetched to me. I don't see what the number of officials working the game has to do with a player getting hurt. If that's an issue, can a player who is in a game with two offiicals, sue becasue there isn't a 3rd official?

canuckrefguy Fri Jan 10, 2003 01:02am

Agree with Mark....those Varsity officials hung you out to dry (perhaps not intentionally, but they did). If one official is stuck alone working a game, and there are others available, SOMEONE needs to step in, if only because it makes the association look bad to have only one ref doing a game (especially if it's known that there were others there).

The stepping in mid-way through a game is a non-issue. The only possible exception I MIGHT be willing to accept is if there's only a small amount of time remaining, and it's a tight game.

I don't really care if the Varsity crew had two tough games ahead of them...if they can't physically or mentally handle putting in a little extra court time, especially to help out an up-and-coming colleague, they need to find another spare-time vocation. They set a very poor example.

So what if he didn't ASK for help. The senior guys should be taking the initiative.

These V refs owe you a beer...maybe two.

EddieLopez Fri Jan 10, 2003 01:18am

I have to agree with Mark DeNucci on this. I know I am a rookie here, so it might be a naive opinion. If I were doing a second or third game, and walked in to that situation, first dead ball I am there asking him if he wants me to step in, if the answer is even"Well you don't need to but..." I am taking my jacket off and looking for both coaches. If they have no problem I am in there to get his back. I got sent half way cross town the other night and dit 2.5 quarters of a boys JV and it went pretty ok, except for having to give out 3 T's and an ejection.lol


DMRefGal Fri Jan 10, 2003 01:25am

Similar Sitch
 
I posted this on another thread, but it seems to fit better here, so I am copying it to here - rather long - sorry. I really didn't realize this was as big a problem as it is -- I started a thread on our local association website so that guilty parties may know what they cause by their untimely arrivals. As an aside, worked at the same gym tonight -- Freshman G/B -- many of the same fans, scorers, etc. AD told me V coach told him if AD saw me before he did to let me know I did a great job and no comments which he made were directed to me. Guess he was pretty upset that I might be upset (which I was). Hate it when you strive to gain coaches' confidence that you will work hard, call your best game, and be impartial and fair to both teams, and have it blemished by someone else or a horrible decision by management, tardy official, etc. Here is my previous post:

Larry, I had a similar situation, except everything went well until my partner showed up. (He told me later he had "spaced off" that he had a game.) Was working a sophomore boys game prior to B/G Varsity. Have worked many games for both coaches (my daughter graduated from one of the schools last year (H)). When it was apparent that my partner was not going to show, they both agreed that I would work the game myself and they would instruct their kids to "play clean". From the outset, it was a great game. Caught the reach ins on top got some fouls on rebounds and shots underneath. At the end of the half, had 9 fouls against one team, 8 against the other - V leading H by 16. When I got to the locker room, one of the varsity officials who I have worked many games with was there getting ready for the varsity game. He offered to do the second half with me. The AD went to the table with me with 3:00 left at half, told the coaches the V official would work, but we would have to wait a minute or two for him to finish dressing. Both coaches said they wanted me to finish the game alone, they liked the flow of the game, and I was doing a great job (missing a few things, but getting the good stuff). Halfway through the 3rd quarter, I am surprised to see a ref running onto the court and assuming the trail on a transition. I had never seen him before, and that in itself made me nervous. Kept trying to call the same game I had been calling, but he made a couple of "questionable" block-charge calls - the kids seemed to take the attitude that "now there are two, we can start to hammer each other" and the game went to he** after that. By the middle of the 4th quarter, H has closed up the score. A minute left, V takes a shot that bounces off the rim, hits the top of the backboard and comes down - V gets the rebound -- THEN P WHISTLES A VIOLATION -- I was sure the ball did not hit anything else although I was lead and was watching for contact under the basket, but there is nothing up there. H gets the ball, goes to the other end, passes it around and hits a 3 and wins the game!!! V coach was hot and as they entered the locker room yelled at the AD that they never should have let the other official on the floor, since they had already turned down the varsity official. H coach saw me as I was leaving and said I did a great job (of course, he won and shouldn't have and was happy). Did run into the V coach at a tourney the next weekend and he shook my hand and told me that nothing he said was directed towards me. I agonized over that game for several days, but felt better after having seen the V coach. I asked my assignor if I should have gone to the table at the first dead ball and talked to the AD and coaches since we had made the agreement at halftime (and they had passed up a good official), but he said that theoretically 2 officials are better than 1 (although it didn't seem that way that night).

Anyway -- to anyone who might be on here who shows up 5 minutes before time to take the floor or doesn't show up at all and makes your partner a wreck (and perhaps takes him or her out of his or her game before even walking on the court), please decide whether you really want to be an official -- if you don't, don't accept any more assignments -- if you do, take it seriously -- I do, the kids do, and the coaches and fans do also.

Sorry and thanks for letting me vent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

canuckrefguy Fri Jan 10, 2003 03:10am

DMRefGal,

First off, WOW. Can't say I've ever been through what you went through.

Secondly, major kudos for doing such a good solo job that both coaches wanted you to continue alone, you must have been really "on" that day!

Now, your situation would seem, at first, like good evidence that an official who starts a game solo should stay that way. But in this case, I think you were lucky the two teams you had came to play ball, the coaches behaved themselves and worked with you, and the game went smoothly. It could have just as easily been the opposite. All it would have taken was a player getting hurt on a hard foul you got blocked out on for the coaches to change their tune about your solo efforts (coaches are funny that way)

I did a solo game once that was a butcher-fest from start to finish, and would have traded my next six game fees for a partner...any partner.

It's a shame the offical who "joined" you late in the game had his head up his you-know-what. But to me, that doesn't change the idea that no official should work alone if there are others available. And I'm willing to bet that 99/100 times the game quality will be the same or better if someone joins you instead of leaving you alone.

Hope your assignor remembers your partner leaving you high and dry...


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