This is geared towards guys who have worked Freshman / JV double headers....We tossed the Visotors Freshman coach....it was my T that was his 2nd direct and it was overdue.

This was during the Freshman game of a triple header (Freshman / JV / Varsity) of one of the biggest rivalries in town. So, how many of you would have then been the guy who then gave the visiting JV coach a much deserved T? I was determined to give the guy some rope and he took 112%. It was almost like he knew he had that rope too. I managed to keep my cool and get out of there but here's some of the things he said / did:

Choke sign while I was reporting
Questioned our interity ("why dont you just give them the game" after a foul call)
Got on my @$$ for asking for my P's help on a line call
etc etc.

I let him go because I didnt want to be known as the guy who ran the Freshman coach and then whacked the JV coach.

How would you handle? I am sure a lot of you out there would understand that it's hard to climb the ladder nowadays. Seems like coaches have a lot more input these days on who gets to work in their leagues. In hindsight, I think I should have whacked him for the choke sign because that would have shown up on tape.

Why is it that almost every freshman and JV coach in Ohio has to act like Bobby Knight or Bob Huggins on their worst days?

Larks
VIT

As I have said before (and often), I am one of the more "thick-skinned" officials in our area. Having said that, I will say this: "I would have given the JV coach his stop sign early. It is then HIS choice where it goes from there."

It sounds like this guy was challenging you and until you drew the line, and demonstrated confidence in your game, he was going to push and push...

BsktbllRef said it in the other thread, "Sometimes, it's just obvious that things are not going to get any better until something is done."

I agree. I also have a very thick skin during a game, probably because I deal with people who are under stress as part of my regular occupation. But when a coach is getting out of control, I make a point of giving him the clear "stop" sign and that is the warning. If his behavior doesn't change, then it is time to take care of business and the "T" is in order.

Also, after I issue a "T" (and I do it as businesslike as possible with very little emotion) I don't head right for the table to report it. Instead I head towards the center circle...this way, if the coach has anything that he wants to say to me, he has to either say it loudly so that everyone can hear it or come onto the court. Of course, either way he gets another "T."

Unacceptable behavior....
 

In baseball I'd love to throw a technical now and again.

The technical foul is a tool that sometimes needs to be used.

Whack the JV coach early.

Choke signal? *whack*

Commenting on "giving the game to the other team" is a comment on your integrity. *whack*

Too many people are unwilling to mete out the technical fouls when they are deserved. In baseball, a wise man once told me that if you doubt whether you should've ejected a coach/manager/player after the game (when you haven't), you should've done it.

In basketball, you don't even have to dump the coach. Hit him early with a technical foul when he starts behaving like a three-year-old, then GET AWAY from him. (An added benefit in coaching box states is that this T brings out the seatbelt). Don't worry about getting the foul to the table right away. Seek out your partner, especially if the situation is emotional, which is likely.

Your partner should slow you down, find out what happened, make sure you get the right team's shooter and head to the right end of the court. Regardless of the proper mechanics, put the calling official in the position as far away from the "receiving" coach as possible. Let the partner take the technical to the table, if necessary, while the other team's player is shooting the free throws.

After an emotional scene, which a technical can be, game management and recovery is the primary task at hand. And the off-official(s) are the keys to making sure that the game gets back under control.

Rich

I agree with Rich about the reporting process. I called a T on a girl at camp for taunting. During the discussion with the evaluator after the game he gave us a mechanic to make sure all the officials have a chance to calm down and allows for a quick recovery of control (if it was momentarily lost).

Calling official walks to his partner(s), tells them what he has and what will be happening (I have a T on the visiting howler monkey, white will shoot 2 then have the ball at the division line opposite for a throw-in). Then the calling official reports the T to the table and ask the other coach to identify who will take the shots. While he is doing that, his partner informs the offending coach that he has lost the use of his box, then administers the FTs. Calling official goes to the opposite side of the floor to administer the throw-in.

In practice, I have found the discussion forces the calling official to gather himself if necessary. If you are working two-man it is best if you meet at centercourt. If the T is on a player, you obviously need to make sure the situation with the players is under control before you start the process and must watching the players during. It is a slightly drawn out process but I have found it works well.

And I would have whacked the JV coach for the choke sign.

I agree with what has been said so far and would add a couple of insights. First, I would have whacked him for the choke signal, the giving the game comment either one, probably more for the choke signal than the comment. I may just address his comment with a stern warning. The main comment I have to add is that there are a couple of reasons that this happens more often in the freshman/jv/junior high games than it does at varsity or college. First is the officials lack of confidence and experience. I often wish I could go back and work games for some coach that made me look stupid when I first started and I was green enough to put up with it. The reality is once you gain that confidence, for the most part, they seem to sense that you aren't going to put up with it and you don't have as much trouble. Also, the coaches are less experienced and try to act like Bobby Knight, because they don't know better and they have gotten away with it before. I also agree with Rich, that we are too hesitant to use the T to improve the game. I'm not saying give them at the drop of a hat, but when the situation calls, don't hesitate. Nobody wants to be T'happy, in fact, I have only given three (all in the same game, but that's another story) technicals in the last two years in varsity games and have never T'd a varstiy coach.

Re: Unacceptable behavior....
 

Football has the "unsportsmalike conduct" penalty that you can use as a tool,also.Hockey has "bench"penalties.I agree with Rich that it's nice to have a tool to let the coach(s) know that they're pushing their luck,without having the strict choice of eject/not eject after you say "Coach,that's enough".I have always had nothing but the utmost admiration and respect for the difficult job that a good baseball umpire has of keeping some games under control,while trying to keep the participants in it.

If a coach shows me up like this, he's gone. Ejected. I have no problem with chatter and questioning calls on occasion, but a gesture like this in front of everyone is a challenge. Throw his butt out and I bet he'll think twice the next time that thought crosses his mind.

Oh, I'm ok with giving out a T. I whacked the freshman coach for his crap. Its the politics later that I guess I was commenting on. You whack and toss the freshman coach...and now you have the JV coach from the same team on your a$$ the next game because he probably knows you dont want to be the guy who is tossing and whacking everyone.

I called a technical on the visiting head coach in my first varsity game this year. Called a technical on a player in my third varsity game.

I'm not technical happy, however I'm reluctant to keep stats on the number of technicals (or ejections) I have in a season. While some officials, supervisors, and coaches think that an official's ability, character, and experience have everything to do with the number of technicals or ejections he has, there is a huge wildcard -- the participants.

I can't control a coach's technical-worthy outbursts. I can't control the player that spikes the ball, gets mouthy on a clear foul, or taunts his opponent. I am not the one responsible for the technicals -- I am merely there to report what I see and enforce the rules.

And younger officials eventually learn that not calling a technical can be just as bad as calling one too quickly.

Rich

Amen to that! ;)

Maybe because we - as officials - allow them to act that way...any of the the things you say this coach did should have earned him an immediate T...every time an official allows a coach to act like that, they get worse at the next game...I have never gotten in trouble for calling a T, but have had supervisors angry with me for "not taking care of business" before...whack him and toss him also if he won't stop...

If a coach does this to me, he'll spend the rest of the game in the parking lot choking his chicken. :p

While he is doing that, his partner informs the offending coach that he has lost the use of his box, then administers the FTs. Calling official goes to the opposite side of the floor to administer the throw-in

We have done it this way also...but, I have found that by giving the "calling" official something to do, administering FTs, it enables him to regain some composure and not have him just standing there at Mid-court taking all the "heat" from fans etc.
We pre-game this...and I tell my partner that some situations may dictate the calling official going to Mid-court, it just depends. I might want to go there to talk to some of the players about sportsmanship, etc....while the FTs are being administered.

Dude

I agree with Mark. I would've tossed him for a choke sign, too. But I wonder if the coach wouldn't have already had gotten at least one T before this had I been working.

The one that always drove me nuts was the praying coach. You know, the one where the coach puts out his arms with palms upward?

Then I had a partner who used this line: "Prayer won't help you tonight coach."

Rich

This is one of the most difficult parts of officiating, how to handle coaches. When the rookie walks on to the floor, they don't want to upset anybody because they want to continue to be hired, probably going to take a lot of undeserved crap. As you mature the skin grows thicker. The choke sign needs no warning, whack. The Freshman and JV coach deserves maybe one stop sign, depending the situation. If avoided, whack. The varsity coach deserves maybe a stop sign, maybe a second, depending the situation, whack.

We must "TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS". An official is out there to enhance the educational values of the players. They shouldn't be worried about what the coach will think, worried if he will get re-hired, worried about having to write a report, etc. I have learned over the years that if you handle the "T" foul situation professionally and with no emotions, your presence grows much quicker and every athletic director will want to hire you.

I think the stop sign is effective - but I also think it is overdone sometimes. To me the stop sign is one step from a technical. If I put up a stop sign and the coach runs it, I have no choice but to write the ticket.

Many times I'll see the stop sign go up when a coach is just doing a little chipping.

The higher you go, the more they will chip. At the subvarsity level, I don't tolerate much. At the varsity level, I take a bit more. It goes with the territory. Your hearing just has to get a bit more selective. Only hear the time-out requests :)

It doesn't hurt to talk to coaches, either. I always try to talk them down off the ledge before they throw themselves off it.

Rich

I agree with this.

This gesture is beyond the normal scope of those earning a Technical Foul.

Mike

Originally posted by John Schaefferkoetter
When the rookie walks on to the floor, they don't want to upset anybody because they want to continue to be hired, probably going to take a lot of undeserved crap. As you mature the skin grows thicker.
__________________________________________________ __________

This is true to an extent. (I'm not so sure it is "undeserved" though)
Consider this...a Rookie is probably going to hear more from the Coaches and Fans because he/she more than likely is actually missing the calls. They are more likely to be out of position, they are more likely to lack confidence, they are more likely to have less rules knowledge, they are more likely to have black sweat pants and unpolished shoes...;)

Not to worry...most of the time they get better!
In the meantime, Suck it Up!
IMHO, a rookie should have thick skin. Remember, the Howler might actually be right...you're kicking the calls!
Now...as we get more experienced...we KNOW what's going on, and we won't take as much from a Howler...maybe that's thiner skinned, maybe that's just having a better command of the game.
...just some thoughts.

Dude

Oh, jeez . . .

Hopefully he'll then get arrested for public indecency.

Well, in that case, point at their shoes and puke on their pants!

Or is it puke on their shoes and point at their pants?

Puke on their whistle and pull down their pants?

:p You guys get my drift.

Don't give up your day job,Mark!
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Animation/Gif/fbf.gif

__________________________________________________ __________

Easy for me to say from here, but I think this part of the game, just like every other part of the game must stand on its own merit, or lack of merit. If he deserves it, you toss the second coach, and the third, and so on. I have called 8 T's on coaches in 16 years, so I don't feel like I give them out easily. Coaches run their mouths at officials. I think it is part of their job description. I can take a lot. But some T's (profanity, choke sign, "Ref, you suck!") are like a travel. You may not have been looking for them. You may not have seen them coming. But, there they are, so Whack and move on.

What's the big deal?
 

Larks,
This is a simple process. First you throw out the Freshman coach when he misbehaves, then you toss the JV coach, and lastly you do the same with the Varsity coach. When the school finds someone who can conduct himself like a gentleman during the game, then he can stay and coach the team.
Remember, a T is just another foul. In HS it is the same as a shooting foul followed by a turnover or an offensive rebound, and in college it is simply one foul.

Either way, it is not a big deal.

Re: What's the big deal?
 

Excellent points everyone. The comments about "rookie or younger officials" may not be far off but also consider that we are all striving to move up. We hear a lot of stories about officials who because of one game get blocked out of an entire league. You put those concerns on top of the fact that in a heated rivalry game that already included an ejection from the freshman game before it and we get to my earlier point.

I did receive some advice on this issue from a local varsity guy who works in the same leagues I do on this: "Dont be miserable for an entire hour and a half so that one A-hole can be happy. Whack him early if justified and let him determine his own fate from there."

Next time I'll handle this type of sitch a lot better.

Good stuff everyone.

Larks
Veteran in Training

AMEN TO MARK PADGETT. YEEEEERRRRRR OUTAHEAR :}