Loss of Arrow

[secondyear]

At the beginning of the second quarter, the home book informs my partner and I that the number for one of the players for "white" did match the book. Technical foul.
Blue shoots the free throws. Since it was the beginning of the second quarter, blue was to get the ball due to alternating possession.

My question is this: Does blue lose the arrow, after the throw-in? Or do they keep the arrow after the technical foul?

Could someone please site the rule reference and case book if necessary.

Thank you!

[Nevadaref]

They keep the arrow. You'll find what you need in the casebook 6.3.1B.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Dec 20th, 2002 at 06:16 AM]

[firedoc]

I agree. Why should blue be penalized by losing the arrow. This would reward team A for being stupid.

[Andy]

Think of it this way - the second quarter is not starting with a jump ball that necessitates using the arrow. The quarter is starting with a technical foul that awards possesion to a specific team.

The arrow is not needed until the next jump ball situation. It does not change.

[Jeremy Hohn]

I had to learn this the hard way a couple of weeks ago when I had to "T" a coach between quarters. The technical foul or ANY foul has no bearing on the arrow whatsoever. Thanks to this board for getting me on the right track!

[Larks]

I had this one....

Held ball. A's arrow. A1 has the ball looking to throw in and A2 pushes off. Foul. B's ball now at spot nearest the foul. We didnt catch it but the table had switched the arrow to B's favor.

It was actually the scorer for B who brought to my attention at the begining of the next quarter that A hadnt used their arrow.

Whats the saying?...you gotta use it to lose it

Learning occured on this one.

Man, I learn every game.

Larks
VIT

[massref]

Specifically NF casebook play 5.6.3 SITUATION A on page 37 of the 2002-3 IAABO HANDBOOK.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Larks
Man, I learn every game.

Larks
VIT

Me,too!

JurassicReferee
V(still)IT

[williebfree]

Originally posted by Larks
... We didnt catch it but the table had switched the arrow to B's favor.

It was actually the scorer for B who brought to my attention at the begining of the next quarter that A hadnt used their arrow.

Larks
VIT

The onus is on us to make sure the table knows when we are administering a throw-in as a result of a violation or a held ball.

During my brief pre-game conference with the scorer and timer I stress that they are part of the "game crew." I explain that their part in the game is just as important as my other partner on the court. I have a short checklist to quickly review the essentials.

Why do I bring this up in regards to AP procedure? Because I believe this is extremely important at lower levels when Timer and Scorer have been "recruited" in the moments before the game.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Willie, what is on your checklist?.... Share your wisdom.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Larks

Whats the saying?...you gotta use it to lose it

More accurately, you gotta use it or commit a throw-in violation to lose it.

So:

Foul during an AP throw-in---no loss of arrow.

Five second count, or not throwing the ball directly into the court, or any of the other throw-in violations during an AP throw-in---loss of arrow.

NCAA Rule 6-3
Art. 2. The direction of the alternating-possession arrow shall be reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating possession throw-in shall end when the throw-in ends (Rule 4-64.5) or when the throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

[ronald]

Whats the saying?...you gotta use it to lose it.


Saying is half right. Team A would lose the arrow if they had a violation before the throw-in ended.

See Loss of Arrow 6.3.5 in case book and it is on page 47 of the IAABO 2002-3 book.

[Larks]

Originally posted by ronald
Whats the saying?...you gotta use it to lose it.


Saying is half right. Team A would lose the arrow if they had a violation before the throw-in ended.

See Loss of Arrow 6.3.5 in case book and it is on page 47 of the IAABO 2002-3 book.

Thanks for posting the References guys. I actually knew this one which aint all bad for a 4th year guy if I do say so myself.

What I really learned was to pickup and be aware of whats going on with that arrow at the time of the situation and not later.

The other lesson I learned last week: Nacho Cheese and its effects on the game. But we'll save that story for another post.

Larks
VIT

[Sven]

We had this situation last week in a JV game.

Held ball. A's arrow. A1's throw-in sails OOB untouched. B's ball at original spot due to the violation. We didn't switch the arrow.

The Case Book play (6.3.5) makes it clear that A should have lost the arrow.

I was the most experienced official on the court. My partner looked to me. The table official was unsure. I should have known.

What frustrates me most is that despite a rereading and study of the rules and cases every year, there are always situations that occur each season for which I feel not fully prepared. This was yet another.

I'll get it next time.

Sven

[williebfree]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Willie, what is on your checklist?.... Share your wisdom.

I have an electronic copy which I will cut and paste tomorrow....