Two in one game

fletch_irwin_m · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 11:52am

JV Boys game over the weekend had two unique situations:
1. Back court scramble, call a foul on the visitors. (In football it would have been Clipping) I blow the whistle, give it the "delayed bird dog" (loud gym) Tell my partner, "White on the side", report the foul "Black 25, Push" then go to the opposite baseline awaiting the ball to be put in play. Home coach erupts saying this was the worst call he has ever seen, called me "a joke", said the call was "pathetic" and generally worked himself into a lather. Finally, my partner as he was about to give the ball to the HOME team, blew the whistle, walked to the coach and asked what the problem was. He ranted a little longer and my partner said "Coach, it is YOUR ball". COach said "Oh" Crowd had a good laugh. But he was close to a "T" with his conduct and comments.
2. End of same game. About 8 seconds left, Home down 1 shooting FT. Away calls TO. Partner goes over and checks the TO's. Says Home has 1 away has 0. Ball is shot and missed. Away grabs rebound dribbles to corner and is trapped. He signals for a TO and my parnter grants it. SOO they get the TO, plus the "T" for no more TO's. Home makes both and end up winning game. AFter, my partner and I talked about how to handle the situation differently. Any suggestions? My thought was since we knew Away had no more TO's we should not have granted the TO, even though he was signalling.

hawkk · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 12:10pm

Nonsesnse. He asked for a TO, he got a TO. It's not your job to cure the poor judgment of a player or coach. (Remember Chris Webber?) But if you no there are no TOs left, I'd be REALLY sure that it was actually requested.

devdog69 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 12:14pm

As far as the timeout, if you were aware and you had told the coach he was out and you make 100% sure the player wants a timeout, what more can you do? You take the burden off your shoulders when you notify him that he is out.

Now the first situation... He was "close to a T"? If a coach calls me pathetic and a joke, he will not be close to a T, he will be close to the showers. It sounded like there was some confusion as to what the call was and maybe you need to address that. Probably could have prevented his rant by being clearer with the call, but don't let a coach embarrass you by calling you a joke.

Rich · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 12:20pm

If a player asks for a timeout, you grant it. You don't ignore it or remind the player that he's out. You grant it.

I agree with preventive officiating -- telling a coach he is out of timeouts, for instance. However, when someone asks for a timeout in a game, the timeout is always granted since additional timeouts can be bought at the cost of a technical foul. It's in the book.

Rich

DrC. · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 01:21pm

If that Home Coach hears or sees the request for Timeout, and knows you heard/saw it as well, and you do not grant it, you thought he was all over you earlier, Wait, just wait.....

DownTownTonyBrown · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 01:23pm

That's a nice professional approach Coach. It was going to be your ball but I guess you didn't want it?

T-BONE

The talk-to-the-hand signal (palm facing the howler) generally stops them so you can explain better before he makes a fool of himself. I'm sure he didn't tell he was sorry after he blew up. No, howlers never do that. Embarrassment only lasts until the next activity. Humbleness is a lifetime comittment.

fletch_irwin_m · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 03:06pm

It sounded like there was some confusion as to what the call was and maybe you need to address that--
That was a topic with my partner afterwards. I am not sure what else I could have done. I blew the whistle, pointed at the fouler (?) and yelled WHITE Ball on the side. Re stated it to my partner, reported it to the table very loudly and took my position on the baseline the direction the home team was going. Any pointers would be nice because I agree there was a communication problem, just not sure if it was his or mine.

telling a coach he is out of timeouts, for instance
I got jumped by a partner for doing that during girls season. He said "That is what they have assistant coaches for. WHat would happen if they did not have a time out and you said, or they thought they heard you say, they had one."

Rich · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 03:38pm

"That's what they have assistants for" is way too hardline for me. Sorry. If I tell a coach that he has one left when he doesn't, then we don't call a technical when he asks for the timeout.

Never happened, though.

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Dec 16th, 2002 at 02:49 PM]

williebfree · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
Telling a coach he is out of timeouts, for instance
I got jumped by a partner for doing that during girls season. He said "That is what they have assistant coaches for. WHat would happen if they did not have a time out and you said, or they thought they heard you say, they had one."

What other game management tactics did your partner demonstrate that night? It is my belief that informing both benches of their remaining TOs (at the end of each TO) is a good game management skill and goes a long way in preventative officiating.

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 03:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
It sounded like there was some confusion as to what the call was and maybe you need to address that--
That was a topic with my partner afterwards. I am not sure what else I could have done. I blew the whistle, pointed at the fouler (?) and yelled WHITE Ball on the side. Re stated it to my partner, reported it to the table very loudly and took my position on the baseline the direction the home team was going. Any pointers would be nice because I agree there was a communication problem, just not sure if it was his or mine.

telling a coach he is out of timeouts, for instance
I got jumped by a partner for doing that during girls season. He said "That is what they have assistant coaches for. WHat would happen if they did not have a time out and you said, or they thought they heard you say, they had one."

1)When you tell your partner what's going on,make sure that you make eye contact with him and he understands your call.Just take your time on the whole process.
2)It is a rule that you,as an official,must inform a team and it's coach when it has used it's last timeout.It is mandatory under R2-11-6 for the scorer to inform you,and for you to then inform the team.If they request a TO after that,you have to grant it to them,along with the accompanying T. Please do not let this thread degenerate like the one on the other board!

DownTownTonyBrown · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 06:14pm

It is also in the Mechanics manual at the end of paragraph 272, page 43 "Notify the coach when a team has used their allotted time-outs."

Giving them an advanced warning when they have only one remaining is just a courtesy.

fletch_irwin_m · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 07:37pm

JR
What other thread on what other board?

As for the TO at the end of a game, I see that it is OK to tell coaches when they are out of TO's. That way if they think they have one and don't you can handle it before hand. Excellent point. That is filed away for future reference! Thanks!

Camron Rust · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 07:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
It sounded like there was some confusion as to what the call was and maybe you need to address that--
That was a topic with my partner afterwards. I am not sure what else I could have done. I blew the whistle, pointed at the fouler (?) and yelled WHITE Ball on the side. Re stated it to my partner, reported it to the table very loudly and took my position on the baseline the direction the home team was going. Any pointers would be nice because I agree there was a communication problem, just not sure if it was his or mine.

In your first post on this topic, you claimed you said "White on the side", here you said "WHITE Ball on the side". If I hear the first one, I just might thing you called while for a foul by hitting black in the side. You did say it looked like clipping.

At the spot, the only thing you should say is the color of the team that foul, that player's number and indicate the nature of the foul. After all that, you point to the spot, perhaps saying "White Ball, OOB". Fouls call should not be started with who's getting the ball. I think this is entire source of the confusion.

Likewise, all OOB violations should not be "Off White, Black ball" but only "Black!" with a possible explanation afterwards indicating who the ball last hit.