Had the worst possible table last night. A boyfriend and his girlfriend who were, shall we say, distracted from the game. They blew it BIG TIME. Didn't start the clock when they should have, didn't stop when they should have, forgot to put up points, foul count both in the book and on the board was wrong the whole game. The book showed team B having only five fouls for the whole game, although on the board they had eight in the first half and 6 in the second half. At first I wasn't noticing, but by half-time we were starting to realize that something was amiss. We questioned them pretty closely during the second half, but even so, it was a mess. I tried to have them replaced, but the AD, "just couldn't find anyone!" Before we were off the floor, there was another table crew for the next game, why couldn't then have finished off ours?

Okay, so here are the questions...

Are we allowed to "designate" the visiting book the official one? Can we do that half-way through the game?

Should I file a report, Howard?

What would anyone else have done?

To answer your question in a word.....YES! You can designate the visiting book to be the official book. If you do so, they must move to the table if they were not already there.

"Mr. AD, we are not continuing this game until the scorer and timer are replaced or there is an adult sitting at the table to monitor them."

Thanks, Tony. Perhaps I should have had the visiting book sit between them. I thought about it. V-book was doing a good job, and kept correcting the score-board guy. She also let us know when one of her own players fouled out. At that point the home book had only two fouls on that girl.

Now that I think about it, I think I will file a report. This seems inexcusable at the JV level.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker
. A boyfriend and his girlfriend who were, shall we say, distracted from the game.

Did you have to call any illegal use of hands fouls?

No, but it sure is disconcerting to report a foul to a tonsil-tickling in progress!

You probably could have called holding and pushing as well :)

I had this same problem in a JV tournament this year with kids running the clock and book. At one point, the scorekeeper and one of the coaches were in a shouting match that I had to step between because the team book had seven fouls and the visiting book only had six. I had no idea that I could stop the game and request personnel replacement. I talked to a friend of mine who is a coach and was at the tournament, and in his game they didn't have a clock operator and had to call someone out of the stands. I am anxious to see what some of the other advice is on this.

You could also have designated the V-book as the official scorer,Juulie,to replace the one that you started with.That may have helped a little.

Juulie - the thing to remember is that YOU are the one in charge there...that means that the coaches (esp. the visiting one) will go back to school the next day and gripe to their AD's and Principals about the lousy way the game was run - and that reflects badly on you...so you tell the AD to replace the scorer, and if the AD won't, then you tell them to leave the table and designate the visiting book as official book...if the home coach wants to whine, tell him to do a better job finding people at the table for the next game...

I'm not so sure on designating the visiting book as official.

Rule 2-4-3 says that the referee designates the official book "prior to the scheduled starting time of the game." To me, it means that you can't switch halfway through the game.

That being said, I would probably chat with the visiting book and let them know they're in charge. The R can correct the official book - I'd probably say that I'm correcting the home book to exactly reflect the visiting book.

Mark,take a look at the language in R2-1-1-specifically "if they are trained personell acceptable to the referee".There are no other time restrictions used.Just adapt that for use in the present sitch.If a member of the table crew is no longer acceptable,the R can have them replaced. There was a casebook play issued on this once,but I don't have a clue how long ago it was.

Oh, jeez.

You brought up the taboo subject!

I'm going to stay away from the board for a few weeks. :p

I are a bad boy sometimes! http://emoticon.go2.be/obscene/eck27.gif

I think if the table crew, during the course of the game, turns out to not be capable, we can re-designate the V book as official. If the home book has a beef he can replace the other book.

If it were me, I would have stopped the game until they were replaced. If they were really swapping spit during play, I am sure there would have been one or more parent ready to step in, just to get them out of there. Personally, I find it offensive, that the AD did not find this offensive enough to take care of it himself.

This seems like an acceptable time to call "over the back" ;)

Score Table in motion?!?!?!
 

I my "spare" time I am an clock keeper at a high school. It was their policy that anyone that wanted to be an official book or official timekeeper had to pass the officials exam. I like it because it seems that I am always working with a "professional" bookkeeper. We never had any mistakes or any questions about our duties. What are your thoughts about this and would you like to see this policy in your area?? Yea I know it is "Backfield in Motion" but I had to adapt it to basketball!!!

Re: Score Table in motion?!?!?!
 

To me, this is one area of basketball that is seriously overlooked on the whole. It isn't enough that very little was mentioned in this year's Points Of Emphasis. I would love to see a program to train scorekeepers and timers. Not only to do the basic job of making sure things are recorded properly, but to learn how to work with officials in a game better. (And also to learn the rules and how they reflect on the Bench Officials' roles in games.)

I am in my 17th year of scorekeeping and timing for my HS alma mater. (It seems like I never left the place -- and I really havent... ;) ) I take my role in basketball games seriously -- just as I know the court officials do. I have worked in State Championship Tournaments the past 3 years, and I am very proud of that accomplishment.

Most of our home games I work as the timer (Freshman, JV levels). It is very trying sometimes to keep the scorekeepers on task (yes, including my home "official" book sometimes) as I spot for them during the game and don't let the focus wander away. In our home Varsity games I am the official scorebook, even wearing the recommended garment -- a black-and-white-striped shirt, just like the on-cout officials. I take some heat from this, but I feel it's very important to make the players feel that their game counts for something. Also it lets everyone know that I'm there to do an impartial job -- not cheering for my team and missing something important on the court, for instance.

Overall, there seems to be less people available to do the books and clocks than before. (Maybe a certification program will reduce those numbers even further, but I would welcome the quality.) The only fulltime scorekeeper my boys and girls teams have is myself, and I can't be everywhere at once. This personnel shortage is even apparent at other schools -- last week I had to help a timer learn how to operate her scoreboard controller as the game management just gave her the job with no real training. A little trial by fire...

Or maybe I'm taking this a little TOO seriously... ;)

I had a game a couple of years ago the Home coach came to me before the game and told me that his scorekeeper was brand new and that he wanted the visitor book to be the official one just to make sure we had no problems.

Coaches want the game run right, we could recruit the muppets for the scorer table if they did a great job.

Not joking – Last Friday we had Santa keeping the clock. Except for not changing the arrow after the half he did a good job.

This happened to me on Tuesday night. We designated the visiting scorer as the "official" book. Never had a muppet at the table, tho. Or Santa either. . .