To "T" or not to "T" that is the question

AD · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 10:28pm

I refereed a High School game on the weekend. I called a travel on the point guard in front of his team's bench.

The player's Coach Yells in my ear "You are not refereeing a jv game, he can make that move!"

I responded in kind saying "Thanks Coach. You just validated my call."

With that he threw his water bottle at the bench, for which I assessed him a technical.

Question. Did I bait him?

Game situation 5 point game, 10 minutes into 1st half.

firedoc · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 10:48pm

I'm not sure that you baited the coach, but I might have been inclined to issue a stern warning such as "coach, I've heard enough" or "coach, let me be the referee and you be the coach." If he then did what you described I would not have hesitated to issue the "T" and "take care of business." I once issued a "T" and when the coach asked me why I gave him the technical, I responded by saying that "I don't give technicals away, coach...you earn them!"

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AD
I refereed a High School game on the weekend. I called a travel on the point guard in front of his team's bench.

The player's Coach Yells in my ear "You are not refereeing a jv game, he can make that move!"

I responded in kind saying "Thanks Coach. You just validated my call."

With that he threw his water bottle at the bench, for which I assessed him a technical.

Question. Did I bait him?

Game situation 5 point game, 10 minutes into 1st half.

I do not know how long you have been officiating but your comments could be construed as baiting even if that was not your intent, and I do not believe that your were trying to bait the coach.

I would recommend to any official to just ignore that type of a comment from a coach if he is a whinner. Of course the coach's actions with the water bottle justify the technical foul.

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 10:52pm

You could have got him for the first comment. He was silly to answer you. You did the right thing.

Peace

ronald · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 16, 2002, 10:57pm

If you told him in a professional manner, then I do not think it is baiting.

If in your judgement, his action indicated resentment with your call and subsequent explanation, then that is a bench technical. I really liked the advice the instructor for my class at IAABO gave about "making the game better". I think that is apropos to the situation you describe. The coach had a mini temper tantram on the floor. I like the call.

massref · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 07:42am

Yes, I think you did bait him. I think the recommendation of using the "stop" sign and saying "that's enough" or like words is a good one because it shows everyone in the place (including video operators) you heard what the coach said and you have responded without inviting a further response from the coach.

Rich · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 07:53am

His comment could also be implying that he thinks you are a JV-level official. Hey, I've been called worse things , especially on a baseball field

If he had said the comment in a normal speaking voice I would've ignored him. Since he yelled the comments I would've probably said something about playing with the same FED rules at the JV level as the varsity level. Tell him it's a travel there too.

If he chooses to throw a water bottle, that's not your problem.

I was calling a game in PA about 10 years ago where a coach (who is also a college football official, BTW) got so mad at his team he slammed a clipboard to the floor whereupon the "clip" part shot out across the floor right in front of me. T. Sheepish look. Once coaches throw things, well, they're responsible for what they throw.

Rich

kmref · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 08:15am

I have found that answering a question is feasible, but he didn't have a question just a comment. When you comment back it will only lead to a situation that you probably don't want to be in. Throwing the water bottle is never something that you need to own. Teching him up is a fine decision.
I keep my answers short and my comments to myself. Always remember that coaches want the last word...let them have it. He didn't want a response to his comment except for you to agree. Saying nothing portrays to him that he is right. Let him be right. Its all in his mind.

ChuckElias · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 08:23am

Hey massref, where do you work? I'm in the Springfield area. You can email me if you'd rather not reveal it to the whole board. I'm just curious.

Chuck

braboa · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 10:07am

How did the first comment not warrant a technical? It seems it was a clear effort on the coach's part to show you up.

AD · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 10:19am

How did the first comment not warrant a technical? It seems it was a clear effort on the coach's part to show you up.

THIS WAS HIS FIRST COMMENT OF THE GAME. I AM NOT A BIG FAN OF PULLING OUT MR "T" ON THE FIRST COMMENT, UNLESS IT IS VERY PERSONAL, OR VERY SHOWMAN LIKE ON THE COACH.

THE COACH WAS NOT PUTTING ON A SHOW WHEN THE COMMENTS WERE MADE.

rockyroad · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 10:26am

A couple thoughts...1)while your comment might not be considered "baiting", it certainly didn't help the situation. In any conversation with a coach, ask yourself (before responding) "Will this make the game better?" or "Is there any point to this conversation?"...if your mental answer is no to either one of those, don't respond...

2)The use of the "big stop sign" hand gesture and comments like "I have had enough" or "That's all coach" or "Not another word coach" are very dangerous...a coach who is really upset, or one who really likes to "work" officials is going to push you on that...use that sign or one of those type phrases, and that coach will say something like "But..." or "Ok, as long as you..." You have now painted yourself into a corner - either you T the coach because you told him to stop and he/she didn't, or the coach "wins" that confrontation with you - at least in the minds of the other coaches and players (and evaluators sitting in the balcony...I really try to stay away from comments and gestures like that as they rarely work and tend to backfire quite often...

Dan_ref · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 10:27am

Quote:

Originally posted by AD
How did the first comment not warrant a technical? It seems it was a clear effort on the coach's part to show you up.

THIS WAS HIS FIRST COMMENT OF THE GAME. I AM NOT A BIG FAN OF PULLING OUT MR "T" ON THE FIRST COMMENT, UNLESS IT IS VERY PERSONAL, OR VERY SHOWMAN LIKE ON THE COACH.

THE COACH WAS NOT PUTTING ON A SHOW WHEN THE COMMENTS WERE MADE.

Hmmm...if Coach A opens the game like this:

The player's Coach Yells in my ear "You are not refereeing a jv game, he can make that move!"

then he's getting a T.

On the other hand, if he does something lke this:

The player's Coach mutters as I run by "C'mon ref, this aint a jv game, let him make that move."

then I'll ignore him, or more likely turn around & laugh.

DownTownTonyBrown · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 17, 2002, 11:31am

AD, his was an emotional response... as was yours.

I like your come back, even if it was a bit of a smart a$$ed one. However, it probably prompted the thrown water bottle.

My advice... RUN AWAY! Hopefully you were in a position where your partner could administer the throw-in.

A little bit of time, even a second or two, will quench his emotional fire. Then, things can proceed as before... and hopefully next time the coach will control himself better.

Agreed the initial comment might have been worthy of a "T" but like you said this was his 1st comment so probably in that context a "T" was not NECESSARY.

And your thoughts/responses may be best kept to yourself... to protect your integrity... unless you like fighting with coaches.