Could someone please review the timeout and between quarters mechanic where officials (two-man) should be (NFHS)? I don't have my official's manual in front of me and I keep getting conflicting opinions from other vets on how this is applied.

Case 1: Lead along the baseline grants Team A a timeout in their frontcourt. The lead reports the timeout (a 30 second T.O.) and immediately returns to the spot of the throw in? The trail stands in front of the center circle? Is this procedure correct? If not, please advise. Also, which official is responsible for notifying the teams that the first (warning) buzzer has sounded? Both, right?

Case 2: Trail grants the T.O. (a 60 second) to Team A with the ball in their frontcourt. The ball will be inbounded on the sideline after the T.O. is over. Trail reports the T.O., immediately returns to the spot where the ball will be inbounded while the lead stands behind the center circle?

Case 3: Between quarters, the referee stands at the center line opposite the table while the umpire stands at the FT line of the frontcourt in the direction the ball will be inbounded, right? Thanks again for the confirmation or condemnation.

It's actually very simple, much more so than many officials make it, and you seem to have it.

The timeout is reported by whoever grants it. If necessesary, throw the ball to the partner to hold during the report.

Immediately after the report, the official that will administer the throw-in/FT will go the the spot. The other official goes to the division line. At the first horn, the one on the division line notifies the team and heads to his/her position.

Many people like to have the non-calling official mark the spot until the first horn and switch back then if necessary. That is not the correct procedure and creates a lot of unnecessary switching. While the ball is being reported, it is not necessary for the non-calling official to take the ball to the spot unless it will be administered by that official.

To address your cases:

1. You are correct.

2. Correct, IF the sideline that it will be on was the one covered by the trail. If that sideline was the leads, then the trail will report and go to the division line and the lead will go to the spot.

3. Correct. (or is it the blocks??).

NFHS, 2-person mechanics:

Case 1: Yes, that's correct. Just remember that after reporting, the official who is going to be administering is the one that goes to the spot of administration and the other official assumes the spot at halfcourt in front of the circle (closest to the table) for a 30.

Case 2: Yes, that's correct. Just remember that after reporting, the official who is going to be administering is the one that goes to the spot of administration and the other official assumes the spot at halfcourt behind the circle (furthest from the table) for a full.

Case 3: Yep, you got it right.

Z

Thanks guys, I'll pass it along to the "vets" who need a little reminder.

Frequently ignored in practice
 

This mechanic seems to be frequently ignored. It is especially problematic when you call TO before a baseline inbounds at your basket, and draw up a play based on where the official was ready to deliver the ball, then the official goes to the other side of the basket. I always ask where it will be now, so that I know that it won't change from where it was before the TO.

I have had officials act like it is a meaningless distinction. They obviously don't understand that in a close game when I call TO with ball on my baseline, I am trying to set my best scorer up for a high percentage opportunity. Yes it makes a difference, and yes, I do give a d@mn. And if they would stand at the spot, it won't change when we leave our TO and I will be a much happier coach :) I seem to get the officials that think that TOs are a chance to have an engaging chat with their partner.

There, I am better now.

Just make sure your local assocation (for example TASO) does not have a different mechanic for you to follow

Re: Frequently ignored in practice
 

First of all Coach, we should always have someone at the correct spot you are correct, many teams I work for have an assistant ask us to make sure while the head coach is talking to the team. Second of all that little chat we are having with 19 seconds left in a two point game goes like this. Okay, Red has the ball here, spot throw, both teams are in the double bonus, get your shooter on the foul, AP is with white, if red hits this shot to go up by four look for white to want a quick foul, stay calm and finish strong, let's get it right, I'll have the shot on the other end of the floor.

I would suggest you do that in a manner such as "what is the correct mechanic on positioning for the timeout's Mr. Vet, I am still a little unsure on that. Thanks for the help"

How to tell a vet they are wrong?
 

We have at least a dozen more seasoned officials than myself in our association. One week the vet says "I like to stand at the free throw line during time outs." Next week the vet says "I like to stand at the top of the key during timeouts." The following week its "Well, I like to stand at the free throw line extended to the 3-point line on the back side of the key. It just looks better."

It just looks better? It just looks better??!

I want to scream at them. BULL CRAPOLA. I have better expletives but they are unprintable.

You know what looks good? What looks good is to do it the way the book tells you to do it. It never 'looks better' do do it wrong. Every once in awhile I will have a coach ask me where the ball will be coming in... and it is always when some veteran has told me to stand in the wrong place. By following the veterans lead I am playing the part of a good partner but at the same time I am reinforcing an incorrect mechanic for the veteran and for any other upcoming official that may be watching.

These same veterans are the ones that like to stand on the sideline as Trail during a free throw. How are you going to help with any call from way over there? You can't possibly see your side of the key.

So my question is .... How do you, with politcal correctness, realign a veteran's thinking?

What is the rationale for this? Many vets in my area say that the calling official goes to division line after reporting, other goes to throw in spot. If this constitutes a switch, so be it. This way seems to make more sense than the way described in this thread.

Re: How to tell a vet they are wrong?
 

Then why do they change the mechanic every once in a while? I guess I just disagree with you. I happen to think standing on the low blocks looks much better then the Fed mechanic. It also gets you out of the way of the cheerbabes. I use the Fed mechanic in my HS games, but not b/c it's the "best" way to do it. Additionally, nobody gives a rat's rear end about the officials during a TO. Nobody cares if you're at midcourt, or whatever. On top of that, in a hotly contested game, or at the end of a close game, you better be talking to your partner(s) and not standing 40 feet apart.

Why not? I don't see the objection here. So you stand a little more toward midcourt to get a good angle. I always stand very near, if not quite on, the sideline as T. It's not a problem, believe me.

Chuck

2-man switches
 

As far as I know, in two-man, you are only supposed to switch on fouls and on a sideline switch (see diagram 22 on page 34 of the Officials Manual). Therefore, the officials should always return to their same positions, except for a change of sides of the court, after the time-out.

Also I had never thought about this before, but it seems that if the ball were in a location that would have necessitated a sideline switch if a violation had been called (say a kicked ball by the defense) instead of a time-out being granted, (meaning ball location is lead's side, but above the free-throw line extended) then the officials should make this switch during the time-out.

I agree with mpeterson. It makes sense for the calling official to maintain position in front of the table on a :30 and across from the table near the sideline on a full. I use the volleyball standard covers as a reference. I also agree that the officials should meet on timeouts during the last minute to go over the game situation. I guess I have never seen the calling official on a time-out go back to the ball unless the time-out was near the division line. The coaches know where the ball will be because the non-calling official is standing on the spot with the ball in the arm of the direction it will go coming out of the time out. If on the endline, hold the ball in front of you or in back of you. This is a good idea because when you get over 40 on a full time out you might forget which way the ball goes in 60 seconds!

Every year there is confusion on the proper mechanic in our region for time-outs. I always wondered, "why is it so confusing?" Now I know. The Official's Manual explains it simply and in detail. Why do some officials and states (if indeed any states would go to the trouble of changing an NFHS mechanic) change it because they "have a better way?" Why not just do it right?

At the state tournament, several officials did their "own thing" rather than the NFHS recommended mechanic. They all went home after the first day of officiating.

Z

Never seen it, but don't doubt it
 

I just re-entered the wonderful world of basketball officiating after a hiatus.

Called a girls' varsity game Friday night and a boys' varsity game Saturday afternoon. Only four subvarsity games to let me remember how to officiate, but it all came back quickly. I will say I read through the mechanics and rules books thoroughly this preseason (like I should every season, but I digress).

I know I'll have completely arrived when I:

(1) Stop waving in substitutes before multiple throws
(2) Stop coming to the FT line as the trail on the first shot

My first year of officiating, 1987, I laughed at how much trouble the vets had getting used to the new 3-point line (might have been 1988, I don't remember). I understand now, believe me.

I've always been a stickler for proper mechanics, not because I think they are always the best way to do things, but because it provides a foundation for myself and my partner -- who, since I just moved to my current home, will be new to me nine times out of ten. If we follow proper mechanics, then I know where s/he will be on the court and s/he should know where I am.

That said, I can't ever remember working in a state where the reporting official on a timeout did not assume the position at the division line. While I'm not doubting that I've been doing this "wrong" all of these years, I have never had a partner in the five states I've worked basketball bring this up.

Actually, I remember a time when we would piggy-back timeouts to our partners if the partner was more convenient to the table. I have no idea whether that was proper at some time (I would guess not). A lot less awkward taking it to the table yourself anyway, now that we have to find out whether a TO is a full or a 30.

As my season progresses, I hope to contribute more to this board. I've mostly been a baseball umpire the last five years and have written articles for the pay-per-view portion of the site. But I must say that the basketball bug has hit hard. Again.

Rich

yo, Ump-Ref
 

Welcome back, Rich.
I am sure your contributions to this forum will be as helpful to me as they are on the baseball side.
mick

Just like anything else, states can adhere to their own logic on what is right and wrong as it relates to the mechanics or what fits it's officials. The NF is not God or is not the Supreme Being of what is Basketball or any other sport for that matter. States and school have the right to come up with their own way of doing things. The NF is just a guide to what the states want to follow. Some do not even adhere to all rules and experiment with their own rules and regulations. I just last night did a game with an Iowa team and an Illinois team, and I had to explain somethings because both states do not adhere to some very specific rules. That is just the way it is and will always be.

Peace

<i> That is just the way it is and will always be.</i>

But why? What's the point of the NFHS putting out a book if we're just all going to do it our own way? In organizations, there is usually a defined process for creating change. There is w/ the NFHS too. If states have a better idea, they can submit it and let it be changed. In the meantime, why not just do it the way it's documented until it's changed? You can either just accept it and be part of the problem, or maybe a change agent that makes things more standard. Up to you.

I mean personally, I think it's kind of silly for the T and the L (2-person mechanics here) to switch on a foul that the Trail calls in backcourt by himself/herself... especially with no pressure. Why not just call it, turn and report it, then inbound the ball and save all the additional steps and time? But you know what... the NFHS wants us to switch every foul so I do.

Z

It is not going to happen.
 

I do not understand why some people make such a big deal out of this. If a State has a policy or wants to dictate how their officials are going to officiate, why would you have a problem with that? I know I do not care what they do in Iowa. Iowa for girls basketball does a coin flip at the beginning of the game, they do not do a jump ball. What difference does it make to me? If that is what Iowa does and it does not go along with the NF, so be it. No different than if a state requires the same officials to do a Girl's Varsity and then a Boy's Varsity in the same night, that is just the way it is. It is not like that here, but what difference does it make. What difference to you does it make if they do what they want to do? Seriously, if I have learned anything from these boards, is the fact that states and regions do different things and many of those things are outside the NF rules. IAABO gives test that do not fall into the NF tests and require officials to do things that my state does not require, I could care less. If I lived there I would be concerned or worry about it, but even in differnet parts of my state, officials have different ways of doing things. When you live in Rome, you do what the Romans do. When you live outside of Rome, who the hell cares? ;)

Peace

<i> I do not understand why some people make such a big deal out of this.</i>

Not making a big deal out of it. Just commenting that it seems as if it would be easier if everybody did it the same way instead of some areas thinking they have a "better way." There would be less confusion if everyone did it the same way - the right way.

Z

Mr. Elias (only used the "Mr." part becasue I know it will elicit a response - just in humor Chuck)....

Your response to my post of a couple days ago makes you sound like the resolute veteran...

Timeout positions
I am UNconcerned about officials switching positions during a timeout - nothing in the mechanics manual specifies that we should change positions. However, there are two things that need to be communicated 1) this is where the ball is coming in. One of the officials should "take the ball where it is to be put in play, face the table and indicate the direction of play by placing the ball either in front or behind the body or one either side..." and 2) that an official is wathcing the bench/scorers table area. "The other official should be on the division line ... and be facing the table, ready to beckon properly-reported substitues into the game and ready to give the scorer and timer any needed information. [Additionally,] If a free throw is to follow a time-out, the offcial with the ball takes a position on the free-throw line." NFHS Mechanics manual Page 43 article 273.

If the official with the ball is not standing at the location where the throw-in will occur (mislocated at the top of the key, free throw line, etc.) then this information has not been communicated. Agreeably the coach could still ask, but by not being in the proper location you have created a need for the coach to ask. Additionally, when you now indicate the location from 30 feet away, the coach really has no exact information and would be required to ask again if he seriously wants an exact location. This pisses-off the coach and inturn angers the official because the coach asked twice.

If neither official is located at the division line (equally distant from the scorer's table) then which official should the substitues report to? Of which official does the table ask clarification questions? I know it doesn't matter but you have created a minor confusion again.

Trail position during free throw.
Again there are responsibilities and those responsibilities dictate the required position. Agreeably, we only call a few free throw lane violations but we must still be in the proper postion to sell that call.

To see a shooter violation I feel you should be in line with the free throw line. To see a lane violation at the lower block, opposite side of the lane, you need to see that player's feet without looking through the legs and feet of the players on the near side of the lane. Where those two lines of sight intersect is very close to the 3-point line. This is where I stand. Another benefits is that this also puts me in a great position to sell a rebounding foul.

Standing on the side line free throw line extended does not allow a clear view of the lower block. Scooting toward the division line so the lower block can be seen precludes you from definitely seeing the free throw line violation. This last position puts you even farther away for a rebounding foul call.

My original question was
Perhaps I've just done it.... perhaps it is impossible.

Somebody's looking for trouble!! http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk.../angryfire.gif

I'm not sure how I should react to being called a "resolute" veteran ;) , but I'll comment on a couple of your points, Tony.

This is the one and only thing that I think is actually good in the Fed mechanic. Having an official indicate spot and direction simply by standing there is, I think, a very intelligent thing. However, there are a couple things that make it non-essential.

First, it can't be used if the ball is to be inbounded on the table-side sideline. You can't stand at the spot or you are in the team's huddle or on their bench. Not a huge deal, I know, b/c you just stand 15 feet onto the floor. Nevertheless, it's not practical for the bench sideline.

Second, how many times have you been standing at the correct spot with the ball on the correct hip and had a coach turn around and ask you, "Where's the ball coming in?" Most of the coaches have no idea of the reason you're standing there, so the only people we're communicating with are ourselves and our partners. Now, that's not an entirely bad idea in itself, I realize. Sometimes we brain-cramp, and it's good to have a reminder. But on the whole, the mechanic isn't all that critical, in my view.

These are non-issues to me, honestly. The subs report to the scorer/timer, not us. And the scorer can get anybody's attention relatively easily. The coach doesn't need an exact position. They usually just want to know endline/sideline, which side of basket on endline, frontcourt/backcourt.

Additionally, as I said earlier, if you're in the last minute of a tight game and there's a TO, all those mechanics go right out the window. Screw 'em, and go talk to your partner(s).

Having said all that, let me just reiterate<font color = red>*</font> that in my HS games, I use Fed mechanics even for time-outs (unless there are cheerleaders using the middle of the floor).

Personally, if I'm on the 3-point line, I'm too close to the shooter. I don't want to be a distraction, even peripherally. So I stand back near the sidline and one step, maybe two, behind the shooter.

I also don't need to see the whole FT line, b/c I don't really care if his big toe comes to rest on the line. I (mostly) only care if he runs to the hoop to try and rebound, and I don't have to be on the FT line extended to see that.

As far as rebounding position, when the ball is released I take one large step toward the basket (as I do on any try). This puts me right at the FT line extended and gives me great position for weak side rebounding as well as possible GT or BI.
So how you like me now, dog? http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/MiscDogrun.gif

Chuck

<font color = red>*</font>P.S. -- if "reiterate" means to repeat, what does "iterate" mean? Look it up, I was surprised.

Iterate
 

Is this a trick question? Have you been messin' with my dictionary?

I take it that the "re" is truly part of the word in this case and not a prefix as in renumber.

Thanks Chuck. At least you picked an intelligent, terrier looking dog. I can live with that.

Re: It is not going to happen.
 

Sorry guys/gals -- screwed up that attempt at sarcasm. Hate those senior moments.

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bulldog56.gif

Btw,if you reiterate too much,you'll go blind!

The trail shouldn't be looking there!
 

Both of these statements are reasons why the proper Fed mechanic for free throw lane-space violations is that the Lead has responsibility for BOTH lower blocks. The trail only has the shooter and the top three spaces on the opposite side.
So stand nearer to the free throw line and let your partner call his area.

Zebraman has it exactly correct, going by the National Federation.

Another pointer, during the time out or between quarters, the official that is going to administer the next live ball should hold the ball to the side of the body that will start the direction of the next live ball. If you were taking the ball out at the sidelines, obviously the official would place the ball on the left or right side of the body. If you were at either end line, obviously the official would place the ball on the front or rear of the body.

Let me tell you, it is a great tool because I can remember "day dreaming" during a time out and forgetting who should start the next live ball.