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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 12:43pm
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Freshman girls last night. Visitors (B) trying to bring ball from backcourt to frontcourt against A's press. Pass from B1 to B2 gets loose. A1 dives for the loose ball near the center line, but before it has crossed the line.
A1 is on her back, has the ball firmly in her hands, and slides across the center line. I am trail. My P, helping out during the press just as he should, whistles a travel. I whistle at the same time, signalling a BC violation. My P said the girl was trying to get up, and that's why he called the travel. I have no problem with my P's call. He was exactly where he was supposed to be, and he had a better view of a potential travel. My question is, was I correct with the BC call? I also don't think there was a problem with the double-whistle given all of the crowding with the fullcourt press. 
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 01:04pm
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It is not illegal to TRY to get up. Trying and succeeding are 2 different things.
The way I read this play you (trail) are responsible for this play. I don't see how the L has a whistle here. You know what's needed for a back court violation. Did Team A have possession in the frontcourt? Was she the first to touch it in the back court after causing it to go into the back court? It doesn't sound like she was in the air and landed in the back court on the steal. The way I read this play it sounds like a BC violation, maybe I'm missing something.
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 01:05pm
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I don't see this being a travel. 4.43.5B
If A1 gains possession in her FC and slides into her BC, it would be a BC violation.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Rule 4-43-Article 5B A player holding the ball after gaining possession while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand. Z
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 01:22pm
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Quote:
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 01:27pm
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Quote:
Also, Rule 9-9-2 (exception 2 & Note) states the defensive player be allowed to make a "normal" landing without fear of a backcourt violation. If you allow that a slide is a "normal" landing, I might be hesitant to punish the defender who was obviously hustling by whistling her for a questionable BC. (I'm assuming that the defender gained possession very near the center line. IMO, the correct violation was the travel, given the description of the play. (oops! looks like Z-man beat me to the post...)
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 01:37pm
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Quote:
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 02:43pm
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Well I'll be damned. I believe under NCAA *attempting* to get up is legal, anyway there's no reference to it that I can find. According to AR 36 a travel occurs when a player "rises to his or her feet". Any comments?
I had forgotten about the NFHS ruling, I hope this question isn't on the part 2 test! Can I get extra credit for presents? BTW another difference is under NCAA a player can fall to a knee and not travel as long as the pivot foot does not move. Also, Rule 9-9-2 (exception 2 & Note) states the defensive player be allowed to make a "normal" landing without fear of a backcourt violation. If you allow that a slide is a "normal" landing, I might be hesitant to punish the defender who was obviously hustling by whistling her for a questionable BC. (I'm assuming that the defender gained possession very near the center line. Klancie, this is my feeling too, but if it's obvious you have to call it. How is a player who is sliding on his back attempting to get up? He's not, sliding is perfect;ly legal. This much I do know  [Edited by Dan_ref on Dec 10th, 2002 at 01:46 PM]
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 03:02pm
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Backtravel
I think this might be the BACKTRAVEL we discussed yesterday in the thread "Backcourt Violation on a Throw-in."
If the ball was controlled before touching A's backcourt, then backcourt sounds like the best call. The backcourt was likely touched before the sliding ended and before an attempt was made to get up.
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"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 03:38pm
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Either call results in a violation... and the game moves on! 
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"Stay in the game!"
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 04:04pm
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Quote:
Quote:
 Because he was there and we weren't, and he said she was attempting to get up, that's how.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 04:08pm
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I am sick and tired of working with guys who think they have to blow their dern whistles everytime something looks funny and make up some bs calls. Hold the whistle just a sec guys and make sure there is something there before you put air in it... there, I feel better.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
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Wed Dec 11, 2002, 07:27am
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You are correct that according to the strictest reading of the rules this is a backcourt violation, since the player secured control of the ball in the frontcourt, was not airborne, and then touched the backcourt.
However, I would not call it. Was it a travel? Who knows? If the player did attempt to get up (whatever that means) then yes. Who should call it? That depends on where the officials were when the play happened. If there were many players in the backcourt and you were near the division line to help with the press, then probably that is your call. If there were only a couple of players in the backcourt and the trail had come up to almost the division line while the lead was well down the court, then clearly the trail calls this. If both of you were close, I have no problem with a double whistle. I will say that you two were fortunate that you each had a violation and on the same team. It is always a good idea to NOT give a preliminary signal on a double whistle, until you check with your partner! One of you may have called a foul or granted a time-out.
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Wed Dec 11, 2002, 08:29am
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Thanks for all of the input. I will just conclude by saying the girl had quite a slide. Thinking back to where she started and ended, I would say she easily went 10'.
In retrospect, I believe I would still have the BC. However, as was noted by NevadaRef, I would have held onto my signal until I knew what my P was calling. I do not know if the girl traveled. I didn't see it, but I give the benefit of the doubt to my P. He's pretty competent.
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