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-   -   Back Court violation on a throw in (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/6503-back-court-violation-throw.html)

Jeff the Ref Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:10pm

A1 inbounds to A2 who is airborne when he controls ball.

Play 1: A2 returns to floor with one foot in front court followed by the other foot in the back court.

Play 2: A2 returns to floor with one foot in front court simultaneously with the other foot in the back court.

[Edited by Jeff the Ref on Dec 9th, 2002 at 11:15 AM]

mick Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:12pm

So, ....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff the Ref
A1 inbounds to A2 who is airborne when he controls ball.

Play 1: A1 returns to floor with one foot in front court followed by the other foot in the back court.

Play 2: A1 returns to floor with one foot in front court simultaneously with the other foot in the back court.

...What difference does it make where the thrower-in goes? :confused:

Jeff the Ref Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:15pm

sorry...I mean A2...my bad!

kmref Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:17pm

There is no back-court violation on a thow-in. Front court status is based on all 3 pts over the division line. Because there is no beginning status of the player that is considered...
1st ex: only 2 pts
in front court
2nd ex: only 2 pts

mick Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:22pm

Careful here!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by kmref
There is no back-court violation on a thow-in. Front court status is based on all 3 pts over the division line. Because there is no beginning status of the player that is considered...
1st ex: only 2 pts
in front court
2nd ex: only 2 pts

kmref,
3-point requirement applies only to dribbling situations.
A2 was not dribbling was she?
mick

Jeff the Ref Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by kmref
Front court status is based on all 3 pts over the division line.
On a dribble.

Jeff the Ref Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:23pm

No...on a throw in situation.

BktBallRef Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by kmref
There is no back-court violation on a thow-in. Front court status is based on all 3 pts over the division line. Because there is no beginning status of the player that is considered...
1st ex: only 2 pts
in front court
2nd ex: only 2 pts

The 3 points "rule" only applies when a player is dribbling the ball. It has nothing to do with this situation.

This is not a BC violation because it meets the requirements for 9-9 Exception 1. Catching the ball after leaving the floor in the FC, does establish team control and FC status. But Exception 1 allows the player to land in the BC, with either or both feet.

EXCEPTION 1: It is not a violation when after a jump ball or a throw-in, a player is the first to secure control of the ball while both feet are off the floor and he/she then returns to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt.

mick Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by kmref
There is no back-court violation on a thow-in. Front court status is based on all 3 pts over the division line. Because there is no beginning status of the player that is considered...
1st ex: only 2 pts
in front court
2nd ex: only 2 pts

The 3 points "rule" only applies when a player is dribbling the ball. It has nothing to do with this situation.

This is not a BC violation because it meets the requirements for 9-9 Exception 1. Catching the ball after leaving the floor in the FC, does establish team control and FC status. But Exception 1 allows the player to land in the BC, with either or both feet.

EXCEPTION 1: It is not a violation when after a jump ball or a throw-in, a player is the first to secure control of the ball while both feet are off the floor and he/she then returns to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt.

What if A2 lands on his gluteus maximus and fails to establish a pivot foot? :cool:

Jeff the Ref Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by kmref
There is no back-court violation on a thow-in. Front court status is based on all 3 pts over the division line. Because there is no beginning status of the player that is considered...
1st ex: only 2 pts
in front court
2nd ex: only 2 pts

The 3 points "rule" only applies when a player is dribbling the ball. It has nothing to do with this situation.

This is not a BC violation because it meets the requirements for 9-9 Exception 1. Catching the ball after leaving the floor in the FC, does establish team control and FC status. But Exception 1 allows the player to land in the BC, with either or both feet.

EXCEPTION 1: It is not a violation when after a jump ball or a throw-in, a player is the first to secure control of the ball while both feet are off the floor and he/she then returns to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt.

Yes..I agree, but does not A2 in example 1 return to the floor in the front court first?

Ref in PA Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:36pm

The book says this
 
Rule 9-9-2 applies to your situation, but has two exceptions. The first exception has to do with a jump ball and a throw-in. The second is a defensive steal. These exceptions basically say it doesn't matter where the player was when he jumped - ball possession was secured in the air and team possesion location is established when the player returns to the ground. There is a note for these exceptions and quoted here:

"NOTE: The exceptions allow a player to make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in frontcourt or backcourt."

So, if you think the landing was normal - no violation; abnormal - violation. Isn't this easy?




mick Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff the Ref

Yes..I agree, but does not A2 in example 1 return to the floor in the front court first?


Jeff,
If ball is secured in the air, then we allow the player to have a "natural landing".
mick

devdog69 Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff the Ref
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by kmref
There is no back-court violation on a thow-in. Front court status is based on all 3 pts over the division line. Because there is no beginning status of the player that is considered...
1st ex: only 2 pts
in front court
2nd ex: only 2 pts

The 3 points "rule" only applies when a player is dribbling the ball. It has nothing to do with this situation.

This is not a BC violation because it meets the requirements for 9-9 Exception 1. Catching the ball after leaving the floor in the FC, does establish team control and FC status. But Exception 1 allows the player to land in the BC, with either or both feet.

EXCEPTION 1: It is not a violation when after a jump ball or a throw-in, a player is the first to secure control of the ball while both feet are off the floor and he/she then returns to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt.

Yes..I agree, but does not A2 in example 1 return to the floor in the front court first?

I see where you are going... when the first foot came down we had fc status, then the foot down in b/c...it would have to be a very significant delay between the feet coming down for me to "see it that way", i.e., if we had the one legged swan standing on one foot in the f/c, then finally putting the other foot down in the b/c, i might call that.

BktBallRef Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
What if A2 lands on his gluteus maximus and fails to establish a pivot foot? :cool:
According to folks in nevada, it would depend on what he did with his feet after the landed. ;)

I don't think it would matter. A2 will be quickly asking for a TO so that be may address his sore arse. :D


BktBallRef Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
I see where you are going... when the first foot came down we had fc status, then the foot down in b/c...it would have to be a very significant delay between the feet coming down for me to "see it that way", i.e., if we had the one legged swan standing on one foot in the f/c, then finally putting the other foot down in the b/c, i might call that.
Wow! You got one right! :D

DownTownTonyBrown Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:44pm

Here here!
 
Or slides on his back from the frontcourt into the backcourt and catches the ball with his feet also sliding on the floor?

Backtravel? Gluteus Maximus court violation? Bogus erroneous crapolous?

mick Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
According to folks in nevada, it would depend on what he did with his feet after the landed. ;)

I don't think it would matter. A2 will be quickly asking for a TO so that be may address his sore arse. :D


But..., but..., I need a time-out!

klancie Mon Dec 09, 2002 03:44pm

As a new referee, I was wondering:
What is the mechanic or signal for a backtravel?

rockyroad Mon Dec 09, 2002 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by klancie
As a new referee, I was wondering:
What is the mechanic or signal for a backtravel?

This is an easy one...simply turn your back to the scorers table, bend over so your butt is facing the table, and then slap your own behind exactly three times with each hand...now many rookies make the mistake of slapping with both hands at once, but the NBA officials will tell you that it should be left-right-left-right-left-right, and should have a definiote beat that your partner can dance to,,,

Mick - where's that brownpop...I need it badly!!

Nevadaref Mon Dec 09, 2002 07:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
What if A2 lands on his gluteus maximus and fails to establish a pivot foot? :cool:
According to folks in nevada, it would depend on what he did with his feet after the landed. ;)

I don't think it would matter. A2 will be quickly asking for a TO so that be may address his sore arse. :D


Actually, in Nevada this is a travel as soon as his butt hits the floor. It should also be a travel anywhere NFHS rules are used!

PS Are you being a sore arse? :D

BktBallRef Tue Dec 10, 2002 05:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
PS Are you being a sore arse? :D
No, just yanking your chain! I figured you could take it. ;)

scat03 Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:57pm

IAABO BOOK 2002-03 HIGH SCHOOL EDITION
SECTION 9-9 UNDER NOTE , THE EXCEPTION ALLOWS THE "AIRBOURNE PLAYER" TO MAKE A NORMAL LANDING AND IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER THE FIRST FOOT COMES DOWN IN THE FRONTCOURT OR BACK COURT. ONLY THE PLAYER GAINING POSSESSION IS COVERED BY THE EXCEPTIONS. REMEMBER THE PLAYER MUST BE AIR BOURNE WHEN RECEIVING THE PASS.


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