Should I have "T"ed this?
 

It a close ball game 45-42 under 1 minute to go, the coach for the team winning calls a TO. I am on baseline where the ball is, partner gets the TO.

As it is called, A1 ( team winning ) slams the ball the ball to the floor in frustration with HIS team mates.

I did not call the T, the team behind goes nuts, had I made a call and he slams the ball, I got a T, First time people are yelling at me because I DID NOT call a T....

Did he catch the ball or let it fly to the ceiling?

In the first case, it's an obvious no-call to me. In the second case, it's probably a no-call (it's not delaying the game, and it doesn't seem to be unsporting), but it's not quite as obvious to me.

Been There, Done That ...
 

Agree with Scrapper1. I hate it when kids do this. It's real easy to charge a technical foul here when the kid is showing his frustration with an official's call. It's a gray area when he's frustrated with himself, or his teammates. Makes it tough on the officials since the opposing fans, and the opposing coaches, always seem to want a technical foul charged.

Even though around here I'm known at "Mr. T", I would let this one go. He didn't indicate displeasure with the officials, he didn't delay the game, he didn't intentionally or flagrantly initiate contact during a dead ball, etc. I would just tell him not to do it again.

I Somehow Never Imagined Mark Padgett Looking Like This ...
 

... wearing a belt. And, Mark Padgett, a gold lanyard? Really?

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...96919cd4debaec

No, he showed frustration to himself. And it would not matter to me how high the ball got away, I am still giving a player that is mad with himself and not me a longer rope or consideration. I also do not give a darn what the "other fans" think. If they want to do my job, get a whistle and get your butt out there and then you can decide what I do on the court. Until then, a player that is upset with themselves over a bad play is always going to get away with much more than if they are upset with me or my officiating partners.

Peace

Same no-call if he threw or kicked the ball into the stands out of frustration at himself?

If your suggestion is that he must do something over the top to get a T, then you would be wrong. I will give a T to a kid if they do not curse and they do not directly say something to me under the right circumstances if their actions are in frustration with me or an opponent. It is not about the specific actions, it is about whom they direct it towards.

Peace

It did fly past his hands and he caught it on the way down.

I didn't want a bad call making the difference in the game.

I called 7 "T"s in 11 games at the end of the season, my partners called another 4 and I thought " do I really have to call this?" I didn't think it was required by rule, like the "T" for removing the shirt, so I passed and they still weren't happy with me....

You'd really let a player kick the ball into the rafters if you thought he was just frustrated at himself?

I know technical fouls are always judgmental in nature, but that would be way over my personal line. That's taking it way too far imo...without even getting into the "delaying the game" aspect. If you let one player do that, you're gonna have to let all of 'em do it. Just not a good idea imo.

+1 JRut.

Typical exchange for me: "What did he say??" Nothing. He was showing (or made) a disrespectful and unsporting attitude (or display) toward an official (or a call).

I don't put up with much... especially from Freshmen and Sophomores.

Yes, that is what I said. :rolleyes:

You added the "kicking" part to this. I was talking in general about a kid showing frustration with themselves or a teammate. My point was that a kid could do none of those things and get a T from me if they say something or do something to show frustration with me, a fellow official or an opponent. And I have never seen a kid in any game I have ever officiated kick the ball into the stands (or even watching) to show any level of frustration towards anyone, including themselves. Now if that happens it would be addressed, but we are talking about a kid bouncing the ball and that is something I have seen in many forms over the years. I will worry about your example when a kid does that in a game. ;)

Peace

Yes, I did. And I got your answer. Your answer was that you'd let a player kick the ball into the stands if you thought he was frustrated with himself. And as I said before, it's always a judgment call. Personally, I'd never let any player kick the ball into the stands without me whacking him for doing that. I can see using your judgment as to whether to issue a "T" or not for a player bouncing the ball hard, depending on who he's frustrated at and the game circumstances. Kicking the ball into the stands though is always an an automatic "T" to me. But hey, that's just me.

Kicking ??? Wrong Forum ???
 

Hey guys. Bring this over to the Football Forum, or the Soccer Forum, where it belongs.

I had a player or two slam the ball in frustration once or twice yesterday. They got on my radar, but nothing beyond that.

And Terp, people want a technical foul on the opposition in the same way they want a personal foul -- when they believe the opposition committed one, and they're looking for that advantage. Either way, it's your call.

If you think kicking the ball in the stands is the same as bouncing a ball (where there is no directive in writing for that standard BTW) than that is fine. I am just telling you what I am going to do and not going to do. Just like kid that threw the ball in the stand in the Big East game, there is no directive to penalize that specifically. So you have to use your judgment like we do all the time for these things. I am going to worry about the things that will likely happen, not things that I read about on a board and never see in a real game. ;)

Peace

Well, not trying to get in the middle of you and Tony...mainly because I can get myself in enough sh!t around here usually without relying on others....

As I said, I can certainly see discretion being used in some instances for some acts, depending on the circumstances. And that includes slamming the ball or maybe throwing the ball against a wall so that it comes right back to him. If I think the player was doing it out of frustration at himself or being mad at himself, then yes, I would take that into consideration too. But there are some acts that I personally feel are always a no-brainer. And they include deliberately throwing or kicking the ball up into the stands at any time, no matter the reason. Another might be a loud "F" shot for no good reason either. Personally, I don't mind the odd "F" shot is the volume is kept low and it's not happening all the time. But if someone cranks up the bass so everyone in the world can hear him, then unless there's a damn good reason for it...like the ballplayer just having broken a leg or sumthin'... I'm gonna whack that too.

Anyone else's input as to whether throwing or kicking the ball up in the stands is usually a no-brainer "T" in their area or not?

LOL!!! I do know that. But if he is going to comment on what I say, I can do the same. No one was talking to him and your question was a reasonable one IMO too. I just did not answer how you probably like, but that will not be the first time that happened. ;)

My only point is I have never seen a kid even attempt that other than to somehow kill the clock (kind of like the Big East situation). And the language part would depend on where I am, who did it and how many others could do it. In a game I had on Friday the gym was so loud I would not be able to hear anything. So unless I could hear something I doubt I would be giving a T for any language alone. Maybe some action would provoke a T, but I would HTBT to say for sure.

Agreed. ;)

Again I have no problem with your standard. I am just saying that context matters to me. Because I hear officials say all the time the ball bouncing is an automatic T. Then I have heard officials recently say the "hand wave" is an automatic T as well.

Thanks. I agree.

If you are always counting how many Ts and you are concerned whether or not you are calling too many, that is not a good place to be. What happened in a previous game or games has NO bearing on what is happening in the present game. Probably not something I would call a T on, but I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

Help Me Out Here ???
 

I keep forgetting. Is it better if we call more technical fouls, or fewer technical fouls. I can't find it in my manual.

How about "It is totally irrelevant to the situation at hand that he called 7 techs in the last 4 games"? Does that clear it up for you?:confused:

Well said. There should be a permanent POE in the rule book every year that states "Just call the damn game!"

Bad call? Who said this is a bad call...the rule book says it is an technical foul for unsporting behavior. Not usporting towards an officials! The player didn't have to slam the ball, if you whack him, it is all on the player. He is so mad at his team, that is up 3 points, that he has to slam the ball...come on man.

I'll admit, I keep up with my T's (but, I haven't been around as long as some of you and maybe this will stop someday). I keep them in my log and annual game report (for taxes, plus learning).

Here's how I have used mine before.

This year I gave the same player two - T's and ejected him. I told the Rec league it was the first time I've ever done that.

Last year I T'd and ejected a coach and tossed a fan in the same game. Again, I wrote my report to the league and told them it was a first for me.

Important? Maybe not. But to a Rec League Commissioner, who knows me and my demeanor very well, who might be deciding on a punishment or enforcement, to say I have reffed x-hundreds of games and this is the first time I've ever given two-T's to one player or tossed a coach/fan may just show them how unusual this is and get my point across.

In filing my HS reports, I just file em.

Let the beatings commence. :o

+1

+1

+1

10-4-1: This includes, but is not limited to, acts of conduct.......:)

My two cents.
 

Couple of years ago, MTD, Jr., and I are officiating a boys' JV game. The game is tied with under ten seconds left in the game when H1 attempts a two-point FG. I am T table side and the rebound comes off toward my sideline. H2 and V2 come down with the ball and I sound my whistle while signalling a held ball. H2 thinks he as been called for a foul, slams the ball, and by slamming I mean releasing the ball with such force that it goes about fifteen feet in the air on the rebound. Easy TF, and the H-HC was livid at H2 for losing his temper.

MTD, Sr.

Hardly

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm still wondering where the rule says the OP is an unsporting T. :D