The Official Forum - Shooting over backboard

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Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by heyref

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
Then it more than likely did not go straight over the top of the backboard.....and it was a pass in front of the backboard.

AK ref SE

I knew you would evade the question by making up a new senario.

Look Slider, he didn't make up a new scenario. He stated a FACT. In many of the gyms he works, the basket supports are directly above the backboard. So if the ball passed directly over the backboard from side to side, it would of necessity hit a support. Therefore, as a logical necessity, if it didn't hit a support, it didn't pass directly over the backboard.

Obviously, Chuckie you don't get it. I never said anything about the way a basket was supported. Half the gyms in this country are supported from behind with cable running from the back of the board to the wall. But you probably never have seen one of these boards in your limited career. You can't or won't answer my question and you have no way to explain your way out of this expect to make up "what ifs" to help you out.

A basketball can roll, touch, or pass DIRECTLY OVER the top of a backboard with out touching any supports and NOT BE DEAD. PERIOD. You can come back with what ever excuse you want but you CANNOT tell me those things are illegal. I've said enough on this subject.

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]

Look Slider, he didn't make up a new scenario.[/B][/QUOTE]Look Slider?

Slider is back?

That explains everything!

The only thing I don't get is your logic. If you use definition 1 to say that the ball has passed over the backboard, then you have to say that in my example, I jumped over the fence. Would you say that jumping 18 inches while next to a 1 foot high fence is "jumping over the fence"? Just answer that for me, and I'll be satisfied.

If you say no, I haven't jumped over the fence, then you have to say that the ball hasn't passed over the backboard when passed from one corner on the baseline to the opposite corner on the baseline (one of your own examples from earlier in the thread), even if it is thrown above the height of the backboard.

If you say yes, I really have jumped over the fence, then again I say you are not using the English language in a reasonable way. No one uses the word "over" in that way in such a context.

Quote:

Originally posted by heyref
A basketball can roll DIRECTLY OVER the top of a backboard with out touching any supports and NOT BE DEAD.

This is the only thing you've written that is correct in this whole thread. I will agree with you. If the ball rolls entirely along the top edge of the backboard without hitting any other equipment, then it remains in play.

If, and this is a huge if (b/c the examples you have given are not of this type), you are talking about a ball traveling the exact same path as the ball rolling along the top edge of the backboard, except that it is 2 inches above the top edge of the backboard, then I would say that you are probably correct. Even then, it's possible that we should rule the ball as being OOB. But the chance of that actually happening in a game (or the chance of a human correctly judging that it actually happened in a game) is infinitesimal, and probably not worth serious consideration.

Chuck

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Look Slider?

Slider is back?

That explains everything!

It's the only explanation for this thread!

Quote:

Originally posted by heyref

Quote:

Originally posted by CYO Butch
What's the citation for that? The Rule 7-2-Note says "When a rectangular backboard is used, the ball is out of bounds if it passes over the backboard." Is there something else involved in the HS rules that I missed?

When I said "pass behind" I meant "pass behind from above".
You have to remember the people who write these rules do not take much time to think out what they really meant to say. This rule is exactly one of those times. If you look up the meaning of the word "over" here is what you will find:
1.In or at a position above or higher than: a sign over the door; a hawk gliding over the hills.
2.Above and across from one end or side to the other: a jump over the fence.
They have chosen to use the second definition as their meaning rather that the first. After they state this, then they try to explain what they really mean in several cases. Here are some quotes directly out of the NFHS rules and casebooks.

"Ques. (1) - The ball touches or rolls along the top edge of the backboard without touching the supports. Is the ball dead? ANS. - No. "

"The ball strikes the side edge or top edge of the backboard from a pass or try from the front or back of the plane of the backboard.
Ruling: The ball remains live if it touches a side edge or top edge if it rebounds and comes down in front of the backboard."

Finally, What do you have if a player is standing at the corner of the court at the base line and passes the ball to a teammate on the other side of the court also in the corner at the baseline and the ball passes over the top of the backboard during the pass. YOU HAVE NOTHING.
In every one of these cases that the "RULES PEOPLE" have said is LEGAL, the ball has at one time or another "PASSED OVER THE TOP OF THE BACKBAORD".

So, once again, THE BALL IS NOT DEAD WHEN IT PASSES OVER THE TOP OF A BACKBOARD, ONLY WHEN IT PASSES BEHIND THE BACKBOARD (either coming from the front to the back or vise-versa).

If you disagree with the "RULES PEOPLE", let them know about it.

I can see from your posts here that you are generally an
open minded, easy going type of guy who takes great pains to
see the other person's point of view and enjoys exploring
new ideas. But, at the risk of pushing you a little too far
& upsetting you, I must ask this question:

What the f*ck are you talking about?

Please take this question in the spirit it is intended.

Quote:

Originally posted by heyref
[/B]

It IS NOT illegal for a ball to pass over a rectangular backboard. What is illegal is for the ball to go BEHIND the backboard. [/B][/QUOTE]Let me point you to the language in casebook play 7.6.1SITUATION. The exact wording is "this play is somewhat different than those most frequently used to bring out the point that THE BALL BECOMES DEAD WHEN IT PASSES OVER A RECTANGULAR BOARD".

Hope that ends this silliness.

Quote:

Originally posted by heyref

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
.....and in most cases if it truly went over the backboard side to side...it would more than likely hit a support or bracket...at least where i officiate.

AK ref SE

So those Alaska refs make up stuff as they go uh. Interesting.

I see you are from Anchorage,Alaska!

Ergo,you make up stuff as you go?

VERY interesting! LOL!

Player 'A' was inbounding under his basket. Player 'B' was defending the throw-in. Player 'B' deflected the throw-in and cause it to go behind the backboard and through the horizontal supports behind the backboard that anchored it to the wall.

The ball did not touch the supports, merely went through them and into play. Is this a violation?

Re: Had this happen

Quote:

Originally posted by Rev.Ref63
Player 'A' was inbounding under his basket. Player 'B' was defending the throw-in. Player 'B' deflected the throw-in and cause it to go behind the backboard and through the horizontal supports behind the backboard that anchored it to the wall.

The ball did not touch the supports, merely went through them and into play. Is this a violation?

No violation,as long the ball didn't go over a rectangular backboard after B deflected it. Again,see casebook play 7.6.1SIT.

Quote:

Originally posted by heyref

Except that is not what the rule says. Why don't YOU re-write the rule and then we will all understand it perfectly.
[/B]

I think WE all understand this rule just fine...the only one who seems to be having a hard time grasping the rule would be you...

where's mick with those brownpops???

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I can see from your posts here that you are generally an
open minded, easy going type of guy who takes great pains to

I only had to read this much of your message before I started laughing, b/c I knew exactly where it was going!! I was not drinking adult beverages (that would be Diet Coke) at the time, however. :D

Chuck

Heyref-
I guess you are the only one on the board that has a grasp on the English language, basketball, and your perception and views are the only one that matters.

I will agree with one thing you said. Yes a ball can roll, bounce, touch the top part of the backboard and still be in play.

Hey Rockyroad...I will take one of those Brownpops now......but I better head south so it does not freeze!

AK ref SE

why they made the rule

Just in case you're interested.
Wilt Chamberlain played at Kansas U 1957.
They had an inbounds play from under their hoop.
The thrower-in threw the ball OVER the backboard
to the alley-ooping Wilt.
He couldn't be stopped, so they made it illegal.
BTW stop arguing and learn the rules.

Re: why they made the rule

Quote:

Originally posted by bossref
BTW stop arguing and learn the rules.

U da man! I couldn't agree more.