In a 3-person crew... the ball goes out-of-bounds on baseline and the Lead is wide and does not know the direction. The Lead asks the Center for help. If the Center does not have it does the Lead ask the Trail for help or go right to the AP? I have been told both ways. Any ideas?

kmref,
If you have your "five up" and you are looking for help, but the Center doesn't have the call, then look at Trail.
Trust that your partners will not guess and that they will only give you a direction if they actually saw it.
With a 3-whistle crew, there is an excellent chance that the call will be made, or not..., properly.
mick

No excuse for the C NOT to give you a direction whether he/she knows for sure or not. This is simple game management. Using the A/P in this case shows the crowd that the officials are not watching the game.
If the Lead looks up for help and does not get any, then he should show a direction and move on quickly. If a coach questions the delay, simply say that you wanted to make sure that the C did not see something differently.
I am sure that some of you may feel that the A/P is the right way to go, and by rule you are correct, but you do nothing more than open a can of worms using the A/P in this case.

I agree with what you say here but I'll pick a small nit.
Instead of saying "Using the A/P in this case shows the
crowd that the officials are not watching the game."
you might have said "Using the A/P in this case gives the
impression that the officials are not watching the game".[/b]

Good nit, Dan Ref. I'll buy that!

I couldn't agree more. I've always said that Dan is a good nit. http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/lol.gifhttp://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/tung2.gif

Chuck

uhmmmm...thanks...i think...?

Huh? :confused:

So, if I'm at C and I don't who the ball goes off, I'm supposed to give a signal anyway?

Wow, Dan, you jumped all over that!! I'm impressed. We must be on at the same time. But I don't see you on AIM. Avoiding me? :(

Nah, not avoiding you, just happened to wander by at the right time. Watch the IU/MD game? Quite an ending!

For every call there is an example of a coach's
narrow-mindedness. (scientific term) Years ago, 8th grade games, my partner doesn't show up, so the varsity coach calls the games with me. Ball goes out of bounds on his side of the court. No call. I point at him. He shrugs. I, without hesitation, point and signal visitors ball. Home coach: "What? You can't call that! If you're not sure you have to go to the arrow."
We discussed it later and I told him that I was "pretty sure" but it was right in front of my partner so I gave him first shot at it.
The question is if I signal home's ball does the coach say one word? duh

He is a good wit,too.

Ergo.....

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Ha. Ha. Ha. [/B][/QUOTE]
http://www.gifs.net/other/crit_suc.gif

http://www.gifs.net/other/crit_suc.gif [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh man, you are getting too good at this, I can barely keep up!

Here's to ya buddy!

http://www.gifs.net/animate/drunk.gif

Your first mistake was in pointing to your partner. Look at him and determine if he is going to make his call, and do not make it obvious. If he doesn't make the call, make it yourself emphatically. If I was coaching, I would have a problem with both the pointing then calling yourself, and this concept of "pretty sure." And yeah, if I think you made a half@$$ed call based on you acting like you have done so, AND your call goes against me, I am going to be a little POd - with good cause. If you can't understand that, you're in the wrong biz.

By the way, what does does prety sure mean? Do you know or don't you? Could you see the play clearly, or couldn't you? I certainly don't want my team having a call made against it because you are pretty sure.

Oh man, you are getting too good at this, I can barely keep up![/B][/QUOTE]Apropos of nothing,I found this little feller.Damn,I miss him!
http://www.gifs.net/other/bill.gif
The question now is: Does anyone else on this board(except me,and maybe you)know who this is?

Apropos of nothing,I found this little feller.Damn,I miss him!
http://www.gifs.net/other/bill.gif
The question now is: Does anyone else on this board(except me,and maybe you)know who this is? [/B][/QUOTE]

Aaack! I cried when he quit.


Check this out:

http://www.berkeleybreathed.com/

http://www.berkeleybreathed.com/Imag...n_homepage.jpg

You're missing the point, Coach. It wasn't his call, it was the varsity coach's call. He pointed to him to remind him that it was his line.

Whether he points to his partner or not, the coach is probably not going to be happy, even if he gets it right. Explain that one to me.

I am not missing the point. I know why he pointed. But by pointing, he is telling the whole gym that it is not his call and indicating, intentionally or not, that he does not have a call himself. If he knows what he would call but wants to hold his call, he should wait a second to see if his partner calls it. If the partner (varsity coach, rookie ref, or experienced ref) is going to make a call, he will make it pretty quickly. If no call is made, now <i>just another</i> can make the call.

Sure he may still hear about it because it was his partner's line and both coaches probably know it. But now he can credibly say that his partner didn't see it and he did. Pointing to a partner to make a call, then making the call and saying you made it because you're "pretty sure," is not good game management and will quickly lose you credibility in my book. If you have made it obvious that neither of you have a call here, go to the AP arrow. JMO

Bring back "Deathtongue". Or their 2nd incarnation, "Billy and the Boingers". Granted they were one hit wonders, but oh how I loved the single "You Stink, but I Love You".

Bill's tragic early end, in a dreadful auto wreck, leaving behind only his tongue, recovered for cloning purposes. That was a sad, sad time.

BILL THE CAT FOR PRESIDENT!! Finally a Bill that we can be proud of in the White House!

Ch-ACK Elias

Both good points
 

There is a thread dispersed among all these character's caricature submittals (entertaining but not pertinent).

To Hawks Coach,
Probably the only reason there was any pointing (from the official to the stand-in Varsity coach official) was to inform him that it was his call. With a regular crew there would not have been any pointing. If my partener didn't immediately show a direction (a glance at me requesting input) I would have seemlessly helped him out. Either heading to the other end of the court or holding my position and either way giving a not so emphatic call - so he can duplicate my call and act as though it were his own. If I don't know, I will shrug and give the jump ball signal and then help by point in the AP direction.

As for "pretty sure" .... probably a bad choice of words. You're right a coach never wants to be on the short end of a "pretty sure" call but give him the winning end that's okay... good officiating.

Good thing we don't have any pretty sure signals because as you well know, we make pretty sure calls all of the time. Television shows us that; seeing the same play from different angles gives you pretty sure different calls.

You and Dan. Why aren't I surprised? Class always shows through at the end!!:D

'Twas a sad day when he killed Bloom County,and a sadder day when Outland died.

R.I.P. http://www.gifs.net/other/opus.gif

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 4th, 2002 at 02:10 PM]

Agreed Tony. My main emphasis would be (assuming this is a real game that counts on the books, not a scrimmage), once you got this varsity coach to fill in as a ref, he is now a ref not a trainee or some sub-species of ref. (I know that when he coaches, he is a subspecies of the human race!) As a ref, he is your partner, and deserves the same treatment any other partner would get. To do less will damage the credibility of both partners and make the game worse.

And I also took issue with what I read to be criticism of a coach for raising an issue, when I bleieve that the problem resulted from the ref's handling of the situation. And you know I don't default to siding with coaches. :)

I've been away from the board for a few days, and this thread is making me crazy!! Serious ref stuff interspersed with Breathed insanity. Every other post.

My favorite panel: I've lost my marbles, do you have them? And my sanity, has anyone turned that in?