Blown 10 second count
 

This happened in a boys varsity regular season game high school
19 seconds left in the game (4th quarter)
score is tied
team A inbounds ball after made basket (to tie the game)
team B pressures team A as they bring the ball up the floor
Trail official calls 10 second back court violation
Clock reads 12 seconds
Coach of team B points out the discrepancy to the officials
Officials agree that the ball was inbounded with 19 seconds on the clock and that the clock was started properly

What do you do as a crew?
I will post the crew's decision and I will post the state high school association's recommnedation (after the fact)

Malfunction
 

Easy one. Tell the school to get maintenance to check clock out when they get a chance..it's obviously way off!

Check the Trail official's elbow for any injuries.

It is the officials count, not the clock. If they wanted 10 exactly, they would give us a stop watch before the game...

I have times my count several times. I come in at about 11.7 seconds consistently. I'd rather be a little slow, than too fast, but it a "count" just as 3 seconds is and 5 seconds is.

I like the humor ...:)
So here is the outcome

The officials re-set clock to 19 seconds and gave the ball back to Team A to inbound again. Team A got across mid-court in time and scored. Team B had 3 seconds remaining when they got the ball back and failed to score. Team A wins (corrected to Team A)

State association offered this information to Team B (they called the state association to discuss the situation). The officials should have upheld the call and awarded the ball to Team B. Play continues with Team B inbounding the ball at the spot nearest the violation.

You nailed it.

Sounds about right to me, no do-overs.

With 19 seconds left in a close game, a 10 second call probably won't happen unless there is clearly 10 seconds run off the clock. You aren't going to make that call if they are anywhere near the division line, so you might have time to glance at the clock.

In my experience, 10 second calls call themselves. I've had complaints I didn't call them, but I can't recall one complaint on a 10 second call I made.

I think you meant that Team A won the game, right???

As for what the crew did - you have got to be kidding me. They actually had a do-over of the whole thing? That's ridiculous. :mad:

I did notice that it was a regular season game. I suspect the crew's season is over as soon as the regular season concludes for the schools.

Yes, Team A won......I will correct that if I can
This is how it went down.

3 officials? Really? Not one of them doing a state playoff game understood the rule?

I am guessing none of them are members here or they would have....

Must have been the same crew that did the USA/USSR game in 1972.

Made basket? How could clock have been started properly, it should never have stopped??? If clock was running , it would be hard to exactly determine how much time was remaining.

A do over? And this was a varsity game? Unacceptable.

There was likely a timeout involved.

As for how they "fixed" it....anything they do is wrong. The "right" thing by the book is to enforce the 10 sec. violation. The wrong thing to do is to enforce the 10 sec. violation. The wrong thing to do is to have do-over. The wrong thing to do is to not enforce the 10 sec. violation. By blowing the whistle for the 10 count that was apparently too fast, there is no longer a "right" way out. It is going to be ugly.

Even if there wasnt, we can always sneek a peek once the throw-in ends.

Yep -- or maybe the state uses NCAA timing rules and stops the clock in the last minute on made baskets.

Is that a state option available this year?

Follow NFHS case book play 5.10.1SitB

If they wanted an out, they should have simply given A the ball back and not put any time back on the clock. Ball back in play at POI. That would have been "less bad" than the complete "do-over" they did.

No, but neither is a shot clock, but some states still use it.

Team A inbounded following a timeout after the made basket. The clock was stopped when Team A inbounded. A bit of information that I failed to include.

This is a regular season game. This is not a state tournament game.

Excellent...I had not consulted the case book

Quite significant bit I'd say.

Why not? :confused: If you don't, you are penalizing the defensive team for playing good defense.

Assess the penalty for failing to cause the ball to gain FC status within 10 seconds.

Well it certainly is not correctable. Who knows? Mabey the timer started the clock late.

Which is something we should be aware of.

That would be my contention if I were on the crew. Put it back in play at POI.

It was stated earlier in this thread that the clock was started properly.

In the middle of the first quarter no one is watching the clock to see if your 10 second count is off. However having a 11.7 second backcourt rewards bad offense and does not reward good defense. 10 seconds should be 10 seconds.

At the end of a quarter everyone is watching the clock, we should know it too. If the clock shows 19, I sure as heck try and make sure that it is close. if the clock has tenths of second this is easier than if it does not but if the clock shows 12 and it was 19 I would not be blowing my whistle..

I watched a JV game the other day, there was 27.2 on the clock, clock started correctly. ball was touched in front court at 16.3... No whistle, the team that palyed good defense was screaming and what defense do we have? My count is slow coach so no matter how hard you play Defense I am not going to reward this....Glances and peeks will save a lot...

Good eyes
 

I'll say this for you then, you must have some really good eyesight and/or a perfect sightline from where you were sitting in stands, through the player that touched ball in FC, and to the clock on wall. To be able to tell it was touched at the exact time the RUNNING clock showed in tenth's of a second...that's bringin it.

I'd say that is within the margin of error expected on a 10 second count when the official count is the officials count. Being off by less than 1 second after 10 seconds is pretty accurate.

+1 Also, some clock operators do not wait for the chop to start the clock.

True, but in an end of quarter situation, how hard is it to subtract 10 from the clock & hit the whistle when you see the magic number?

She Blinded Me With Science (Thomas Dolby) ...
 

I'm an analytical chemist. For quality control purposes, when we report a result that's plus, or minus, twenty percent, of another result, we are considered to have duplicated, or replicated, that result. Coming out of academia, I didn't believe this at first, but it's true.

And wtf does that have to do with basketball rules? :confused: Last time I looked the 10-second rule didn't say between 8-12 seconds.

It was after a timeout so clock was stopped. I was standing near the endline so I had the same view...

In most normal situations this accuracy may be good, but at the end of a quarter and 11. 5 seconds run off, how can we say that is accurate? and say no big deal we would not blow the whistle.

If the idea is to get it right this is a situation we have to get right.

Everyone knows we just screwed good defense ... If the official had called the 10 seconds atllets say 17 and it ran to 16.3 and we knew that, would we let that go as well?

"Coach, I've had the same count all game, and by rule, it's my count that matters for this call, not the game clock."

Seems to me that just as foul judgment shouldn't change in the minute, neither should the speed of your ten second count.

and that same count that has been scrwing my defense all night! would be an accurate response...at least from a lot of coaches around here...

The speed of a ten second count should not matter because the rule states 10 seconds and our count should be 10 seconds....it doesnt say the ten second count is what the referee thinks 10 seconds is... it is ten seconds...

Are there times we might be a little slower to call the violation?, just like three seconds or 5 seconds, but telling a coach my count is 11 seconds and that's what we play with is dangerous....

Rocket Science ???
 

If this would be acceptable in a precise, and accurate, field such as analytical science, then I would think that most evaluators would be pleased if an official was able to get it somewhere between 9 and 11 seconds. That would be acceptable to me, especially if the trail official, in a two person game, had a lot of other things to watch. Eight seconds is kind of fast. Twelve seconds is kind of slow. Hitting it on the head at ten seconds, exactly, every single time up the court, seems like a lot to ask.

Ten Seconds ???
 

It's about precision, accuracy, and being able to consistently duplicate a result. In this case, getting as close to ten seconds as humanly possible. How precise, and accurate, do officials, players coaches, and fans, expect us to be? 10.00 seconds every single time? So then how close to 10.00?

You're assuming that control and touch occur at the same time. It is entirely possible and actually fairly normal that control occurs slightly after the ball is touched. The clock starts on contact, the count starts on control...thus a small amount of time usually passes before the 10 count should start.

10.9 seconds seems to be well within reason.

10 seconds every time? No, but with the clock stopped in the closing moments of a competitive contest... I don't think thats a tough task for the exceptional official.

Your first post had the math work out to 10.9 seconds. Just sayin'.