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-   -   10 Second Count (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/6321-10-second-count.html)

Matt S. Thu Nov 21, 2002 03:58am
Re: Re: Spirit of Rule
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt S.
The fact is, there are many rules that are rarely enforced because of advantage/disadvantage principles-this backcourt situation is one of them.

We had a scenario in our meeting last night where the ball was inbounded just in front of the timeline, A1 passes to unguarded A2, who decides to tip the ball into the backcourt and then pick it up. By rule, this is not backcourt, because team control isn't established on a throwin-however, we said that there was no reason A2 shouldn't have caught the ball, so the violation was called.

Again, I would not call the 10-count, as it will only lead to more trouble.
Am I reading you correctly? You called a backcourt violation becuase A2 <em>should</em> have caught the ball in the frontcourt but didn't?

If so, do you also give the ball back to A if A2 tips the ball out-of-bounds when he should have easily caught it?

We can't make calls based on what a player could/should have done but only what they actually did. Please don't make up violations that don't exist. That is really causes headaches for everyone. How do we expect the coaches/fans to ever learn anything with such calls.
Let me be more clear-first, it wasn't ME that made this call-it came up in discussion. However, in this particular scenario, an official could easily tell the coach that s/he judged team control to be established, hence the violation. I neither suggest nor condone the "making up" of violations.

ChuckElias Thu Nov 21, 2002 08:01am
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
If you can take your eyes off the girl at the table you'll be able to look downcourt & see if the shot clock is at 35 when the ball gets inbounds. ;)
I didn't say I am a heckuva point guard. I said I was. Sadly, those days of cute girls at the table staring at me are long gone :(

Chuck

bob jenkins Thu Nov 21, 2002 08:28am
Re: Re: Spirit of Rule
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
By RULE,there is no violation.But....y'all gonna call a violation anyway.

So...you call a violation when there is no rule saying that it really is a violation.

I get it!You are kidding ,aren't you?
It's to balance it out with the actions that are violations by rule but not called.

I think this is what coaches mean when they say, "Call it both ways." ;)

devdog69 Thu Nov 21, 2002 09:50am
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
If you can take your eyes off the girl at the table you'll be able to look downcourt & see if the shot clock is at 35 when the ball gets inbounds. ;)
I didn't say I am a heckuva point guard. I said I was. Sadly, those days of cute girls at the table staring at me are long gone :(

Chuck
They still stare at me, Chuck, but for some reason I don't like that look they are giving me :eek:

devdog69 Thu Nov 21, 2002 09:51am
Re: Re: Re: Spirit of Rule
 
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
By RULE,there is no violation.But....y'all gonna call a violation anyway.

So...you call a violation when there is no rule saying that it really is a violation.

I get it!You are kidding ,aren't you?
It's to balance it out with the actions that are violations by rule but not called.

I think this is what coaches mean when they say, "Call it both ways." ;)
ROFLMAO

rockyroad Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude

Thanks to the 4 that had the guts to respond how they would call, or not call, the violation.

RD
So does this mean that if we didn't respond, we don't have any guts??? Ouch...I guess my feelings are hurt... but then again, it was a pretty silly question...

mick Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude

Thanks to the 4 that had the guts to respond how they would call, or not call, the violation.

RD
So does this mean that if we didn't respond, we don't have any guts??? Ouch...I guess my feelings are hurt... but then again, it was a pretty silly question...
dj,
You show an additional lack of intestinal fortitude by yet not answering the question.
I am not "brave" enough to answer RD's question.
...Wassamatta U. ?

<s>Rocket J. Squirrel</s> mick

rockyroad Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:15pm
I know mick...I keep trying, but I can't seem to find my backbone - I think I left it at home today...probably sitting on the couch with my guts watching Matlock reruns... and I would add a quote from my favorite cartoon character, but it's the Pink Panther...

mikesears Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
...Let's see...I never did get my question answered, "has any official here ever called the backcourt violation when the ball is in the air?"
Or maybe I did...no official here has ever called it!
4 responses:
1. It is a Rule so call the Violation
2. It is a Rule...BUT "I tend to loose track of the count"
3. It is a Rule...BUT "use common sense"
4. It is a Rule...BUT "don't call the violation..."

These responses, surprisingly enough, were about the same as at our association meeting.
Thanks to the 4 that had the guts to respond how they would call, or not call, the violation.
Any other officials care to comment on how they would treat this violation?

FYI, I tend to agree with responses 2-4...and can remember when the ball was in the air, past the mid-court line, and past the 10 second count, my whistle didn't make a "peep".
(But only because my gum got stuck in it) ;)

RD

I don't officate basketball anymore but when I did I would't call the violation unless the Team A player who threw the pass was trapped and was just getting rid of the ball in Desperation to try to beat the 10-second clock.

Mark Dexter Thu Nov 21, 2002 04:20pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias

I didn't say I am a heckuva point guard. I said I was. Sadly, those days of cute girls at the table staring at me are long gone :(

Chuck
I don't remember any cute scorers/timers from my HS years - those days must be long gone, period.

mick Thu Nov 21, 2002 06:06pm
Just wait.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
[B
I don't remember any cute scorers/timers from my HS years - those days must be long gone, period. [/B]
When yer older, you become more diversified.

rainmaker Fri Nov 22, 2002 10:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by mikesears
I don't officate basketball anymore ....
Well, for Pete's sake, Mike, why not!?!? We miss you around here!

dblref Mon Nov 25, 2002 06:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias

I didn't say I am a heckuva point guard. I said I was. Sadly, those days of cute girls at the table staring at me are long gone :(

Chuck
I don't remember any cute scorers/timers from my HS years - those days must be long gone, period.
At your age,"long gone" means 2 years. At my age, it means at least 20 years. :D

JRutledge Mon Nov 25, 2002 07:24am
Defense is allowed to play too.
 
I think in the game of basketball we spend way too much time trying to find reasons not to call things on the offense (3 seconds, carry, FT violations). The defense should be rewarded for playing good defense. Make the call if the ball is in the air. Especially if you were at nine when the player finally throws the ball. Remember the ball is already dead by the time you actually blow your whistle. This probably is not going to happen that much anyway.

Peace


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