change a call?

Troward · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 10:38am

subvarsity game last night my partner the trail in transition at half court made an incorrect ruling and I am wondering how I should have handled it?

A1 attempted a 3 pointer in transition, the ball rebounded off of the fingers of B1 and then A2's finger tips and then bounced into the backcourt where A3 caught it. there was no team control in the front court following the shot so there can not be a back court violation (which I only recently learned from this board).

My partner whistled this a backcourt violation and no one really complained very much. I knew the call was incorrect but I did nothing - if team As coach had challenged the call I would have gave my opinion. My partner and I discussed the call post game and he admitted he did not know the rule but he thanked me for not over-ruling him because he felt that would have hurt his credibility in what was a physcial game.

In these situations where there is no judegment, like there is on a partner's foul call and I am 100% certain the call is incorrect rule application; is it better to get the call right? or to ignore?

thanks again
GTW

ChuckElias · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 11:00am

Troward, you've got all the hard questions this morning!!

If I were your partner and I had obviously blown a rule application (NOT talking about judgment on a foul call), I would have no problem with you coming over and saying "Hey, Chuck, was there ever team control after the shot?" I would change my call and we'd get the game going again.

However, for some reason, I am verrrrrrry slow to do this myself. It's very rare for me to go my partner even when I'm sure he's blown a rule. Fortunately, it doesn't happen very often. But especially if it's not a critical possession or if it's very early in the game, I think I usually just say "Let's keep things moving". I don't know if that's right or wrong, but it's just me.

Chuck

Tim Roden · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 11:32am

In this case, I would run up to you, cover my mouth, and ask you if you saw team control. Did someone actually control the ball or was it just tipped. Once you admit it was just tipped, I would tell you to reverse your call and call an inadvertant whistle. Team A still has the ball OOB at the point of interuption out of bounds.

APHP · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 11:32am

With me it would depend on the situation. If I thought there was a chance that (incorrect) call would effect the out come of the game--I would go to partner. If it is a 20+ point game or I know the "changing" of the call will not effect the outcome, I will wait till post game and make sure partner understands the rule. How can I be sure the call will or will not effect the outcome..I just use my judgement like I do a hundred other times during the game.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 11:34am

You cannot have any doubt in your mind. You have to know that a rule was missed. If you have doubt, leave it alone. Talk about it after the game or during a timeout, but do not ever change a call yourself. Just give your partner "information" and let him/her change the call themselves. But I agree with Chuck, there is not one size fits all model for this.

Peace

Tim Roden · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 11:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by APHP
With me it would depend on the situation. If I thought there was a chance that (incorrect) call would effect the out come of the game--I would go to partner. If it is a 20+ point game or I know the "changing" of the call will not effect the outcome, I will wait till post game and make sure partner understands the rule. How can I be sure the call will or will not effect the outcome..I just use my judgement like I do a hundred other times during the game.

I've done this before and my partner makes this same bad call three or four times during the game. I think it is best to correct him the first time and therefore the problem is not multiplied.

Andy · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Roden
In this case, I would run up to you, cover my mouth, and ask you if you saw team control. Did someone actually control the ball or was it just tipped. Once you admit it was just tipped, I would tell you to reverse your call and call an inadvertant whistle. Team A still has the ball OOB at the point of interuption out of bounds.

I agree with Tim. (except for that last sentence from the department of redundancy department)

Roy McCoy · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 03:24am

If it had the potential to affect the outcome of the game, then by all means, blow your whistle and go to your partner. If I had made the mistake your partner made, and it could have cost someone the game, then I would want to be corrected. In this situation involving the misapplication of a rule (rather than a judgement call) I would rather look a little stupid and get it right. A good partner would appreciate you. If your partner is an egomaniac who would be offended, then he doesn't need to be officiating. If the game is a blowout, then leave it alone and talk to your partner later.

A Dutch Ref · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 07:39am

But if such a situation would come up again and it would have been your call, what would you have done in that case?

ADR

Roy McCoy · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 11:41am

If it were my call, and the same situation happened again, I would want to be corrected. Our job is to get it right.

Ridge Wiz · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 02:38pm

In this case, I would run up to you, cover my mouth, and ask you if you saw team control. Did someone actually control the ball or was it just tipped. Once you admit it was just tipped, I would tell you to reverse your call and call an inadvertant whistle. Team A still has the ball OOB at the point of interuption out of bounds.

?? I thought an inadvertant whistle resulted in a throw in by the team with the possesion arrow. By the way, I worked 8 middle school games for a tourney this weekend and I had a inadvertant whistle two different games with two different partners. One partner said, "jump ball". The other said, "team A had the ball so team A keeps the ball."

bob jenkins · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ridge Wiz
?? I thought an inadvertant whistle resulted in a throw in by the team with the possesion arrow. By the way, I worked 8 middle school games for a tourney this weekend and I had a inadvertant whistle two different games with two different partners. One partner said, "jump ball". The other said, "team A had the ball so team A keeps the ball."

IW w/ team control -- goes back to that team.

IW w/o team control -- go to the arrow.

(In the second case, if it's *obvious* who would have had the ball, give it to them.)

williebfree · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 08:45pm

Hello everyone!!!

I have been here all along, just too damn busy dealing with personal issues to respond to to all the great topics discussed throughout the past several months. Having the employer take away internet access for all employees also limited my opportunities.

Anyway, I agree. If you have definite knowledge that your partner has misapplied a rule step in and correct it.

Another "observation": (NOT "picking on" the individuals who made these posts)

Examine these statements: "If it had the potential to affect the outcome of the game..."; "If I thought there was a chance that the (incorrect) call would effect the outcome of the game..."

Why do I bring these up? They give credence to the mentality that the officials' call at the end of the game is more important than the first whistle! Comments?

IT IS GOOD TO BE BACK! Looking forward to a prosperous season for all!!

Willie

mick · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 09:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by williebfree

...I have been here all along....

Well, Good deal!
Glad you weren't just cutting cheese.
mick

williebfree · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 18, 2002, 09:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by williebfree

...I have been here all along....

Well, Good deal!
Glad you weren't just cutting cheese.
mick

Hmmmmmm..... Yes. The Packers stunk like Limburg Cheese in the THAT Dam# Dome of Doom. So, I might be a wee bit irratable.

Wait, I am now on to the Hoops board!