I dunno...I don't see the two tactics in the same light. I don't view keep away as basketball. I can say, I've been fortunate never to be involved in a game like this.

The only way they can "keep it away" is if the defense lets them. It is not like this is on the offense only. They could come out and guard to change this all together.

Peace

I've never had it happen to that extent. My point wasn't whether your or I see them as the same; but that there are quite a few who feel last minute fouling "isn't basketball." I disagree with them just as I disagree with you on this. <shrug> It's not as if they're turning down layups; they're running their offense looking for layups and being extremely patient and disciplined.

Even if they were turning down layups; do we ever condemn the team that's leading by 4 with 10 seconds left when they actually turn down a wide open layup and pass the ball around for 10 seconds?

You're right it's not only on the offense, but the offense is going to have the advantage here. A halfway competent team on the offensive end would be able to burn a minute or two easily short of the defense just being superior athletes.

Special Kind Of Excitement ...
 

I observed one of these games about twenty years ago after one of my my junior varsity games. Very small, unranked, Catholic high school, with it's best basketball behind it, just a year away from closing due to low enrollment, at a very large, public, urban, high school, with two future Division I players on the roster, ranked in the top five in the state. Catholic school only shot layups, not a single jump shot. The public school team ended up winning, something like 21 to 17, but the Catholic school team was in it until the end, and would have won if it had hit a few more free throws. Catholic school coach's son was the point guard, his dad was a state coach of the year, point guard has gone on to became a successful coach in his own right. It was one of the most exciting games I've ever observed. At first the home crowd was upset about the tactics, but began to realize that this was a special kind of game, and eventually got into it like any other game.

I can't quite match that, but I posted this story a while ago:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...-nonsense.html

I've mostly done games with shot clocks so I haven't seen this. But I have heard "closely guarded" was supposed to be sufficient to not truly need a shot clock.

This post belies that argument then.

Rita

No we're way off topic lol. As an officials players play the game, coaches coach and officials officiate. So my personal view point will not have any bearing on how I do the job I'm paid to do.

As a basketball stakeholder though I am pro shot clock. I am also concerned by tactics that don't promote skill development or creation of the maximum number of athletes with global skill at any level below college.

the LLaBB: HOW THE SHOT CLOCK IMPROVES PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

I had a spirited discussion with someone who feels the same way. That guy teaches at the high school that was on the losing end of the game I link-posted earlier, so perhaps "consider the source" plays a role here.

This can be an emotional issue. Those that want the shot clock can be very adamant. I tend to believe that having a shot clock for every high school game -- varsity, JV, freshmen -- will cause far more problems than the number of stall-ball games they'll prevent. I foresee shot-clock reset errors cause bigger issues in games than stall-ball ever will.

Someone else pointed out that fundamentals have taken such a whack at the high school level, that a shot clock will only create more sloppy play. Honestly, I don't see a shot clock happening in the northeast corner for a long while.

I would buy the shot clock resetting error issue except we already have states that use the shot clock. Let's not act like working the shot clock is some great mystery. I don't doubt that it would be rough at first. There would definitely be an adjustment period. But low and behold, those states that do use the shot clock seem to be doing just well. I also believe that those that use FIBA rules use the shot clock at all levels at well. So it's definitely something that can be taken care of with some time.

Yup, and I would guesstimate that I have at 1 shot clock error every other game. Either an incorrect reset or failure to reset (not just starting incorrectly, which happens all the time, even in college games).

Around here, basketball skill levels are at a really low point. I can't say for sure that it's because of the shot clock. It might just be because kids have so many other things to occupy their time that they don't spend the time to practice those skills. But I do see too many teams who try to play an "up tempo" game, but utterly lack the skills to do it and it makes for ugly, ugly basketball.

There it is. That seems a lot more frequent than the number of stall ball games there are.

More frequent, sure, but for those who claim stall ball is some sort of travesty, it's less problematic.