Should I be upset?
 

I recently had a doubleheader at a school that I'd never been to, in an area I'm not at all familiar with.

The first game was supposed to start at 5:30. My directions said it would take me close to 45 minutes to get there. With my lead foot, I can usually knock off five minutes from the directions.

Regardless, I left at 4:00 to give myself an hour. Anyways, it took me just short of two hours to get there because of traffic.

I got there at halftime of the first game, and finished the game and the second game. I just got the check, and they paid me what must be 75% of a doubleheader game fee.

I would understand it if I had plum forgotten about when the game was supposed to start, but I thought I had given myself plenty of time to get there. When I saw the AD after the game, he made no mention of the reduction in pay.

Is this SOP, or should I go after my missing 20 bucks?

Are you kidding? I would have told the AD, on site, to not pay me for the first game AT ALL.

It's not the AD's problem you ran into traffic or whatever. You *weren't* there. Why should you get full pay?

If you worked 3 of the 4 halves, that's 75% of a DH, right?

So you worked 75% of a double header and got paid 75% of what your fee would have been? Did your partner get the other 25%, or did someone fill in for a half?

Forget the money, would you pay a plumber for two hours work if they only worked for 1.5 ? (Sorry Freddy)

I would be upset. They should be happy they get anyone to work and if that happens to them, which it does, they certainly have not made them a friend. And certainly when they do not pay the other guy's check I really would be mad. The question that I have is did they give your partner your money? If that is the case I could live with it, but they want to skimp on every other money when we do more. I do not like them taking money away.

Peace

The game started at 5:30PM and he arrived at 6PM. You think he deserves full pay? He didn't live up to his contract, did he?

OTOH, I filled in for a quarter at a school when a JV official pulled a hammy and they didn't give me an extra penny. I didn't expect it either, but it would've been a nice surprise.

That I don't know. The guy who worked the second half of the first game with me was supposed to be the sophomore official, and bolted after the game and I had a different parnter for the second game. I don't even remember the guy's name.

I'm not go into the school with stomping feet and demanding my money...just wondering what everyone thinks.

Actually, it depends on what increments Freddy uses for billing.

Early = on time
On time = late
Late = unacceptable (I know, sh!t happens...)

Most of these places would not even offer to give money to the official that worked alone in the same situation. So yes, I would be a little upset.

I was a varsity official at a site and showed up for a prelim game early and I was asked to help out a few years ago. I ran to the locker room and got ready in which I came in about 3 minutes into the second half. When I got the check about a week later, I was paid a prorated amount for working a quarter and a half. I was ticked and called and complained. Not because I worked a quarter and a half, but because I did not have to do it. I could have said no and worried about working the varsity game. I will never do that again as if I am going to help, you could have paid me more than what they did to show some appreciation. Just pay the guys especially when someone shows up. Let the officials split up the money or do something for them.

I had a similar issue this year and I took the guys I was with out to dinner. Not everyone showing up is deliberate. Heck if you are going to be that worried about it, have the damn check ready when we play the game and not send it later.

Peace

I would have been ashamed to have taken anything for the first game. IMHO you didn't earn anything that game since you put the game/other official in a bind by not being there. There is no way the game could have flowed as smoothly with one official as it would with two so I would consider that game fee lost.

When you saw you were running late, you didn't call the school or better yet, your partner? I always take my partner's number and the school's and/or GA's number in case something happens on the way.

you mean LOMBARDI TIME:)

Our Assoc. if you miss the tip off you are fined an amount equal to the game fee..considered a NO SHOW!

Whether we are speaking quantity or quality, half a game is no game at all. I'm with Rich, you don't owe me anything for the first game. Anything I've got coming, give it to my partner, the one left holding the bag.

Here, it would be up to the school if they want to pay you or not. Either way, you would be fined by the state.

I see no reason for them to pay you for a half you didn't work. You were late, make all the excuses you want, it's still you're fault.

Yes and yes. Nobody answered at the school and I called my partner and he was in traffic as well. I asked him to let the school know my situation if he got there first.

The AD eventually called me and I told him where I was

Stuff happens sometimes but the fact is you did not adhere to the terms of your contract. Doesn't make you a bad person or bad official. I think you have no leg to stand on by requesting the missing fees.

Just to spark more conversation...stuff happens...like getting hurt during a game. So if I got hurt in the second quarter and wasn't able to finish the game, would I only get half the game check? Technically I didn't fulfill my contract then either.

Why would you expect any more?

Perhaps. But that wouldn't be something you brought on yourself. That's an accident. Being late is your fault.

Well, nine times out of ten injuries are out of our control.

A traffic jam situation could be out of our control, ie an accident on a roadway that radio station traffic reports don't cover.

The school or district was going to pay you the money anyway, you get injured during the first half, and can't finish the game. Not their fault, not yours. Why should they withhold the money, other than to save a few bucks?

You get paid for what you WORK not what you were suppose to work but didn't.

If you were injured in the first half of a game I might see where they would pay you but if you were injured in the first game would you expect them to pay you for the second game as well? But just not showing up is a different story

When I filled in after a JV ref pulled his hamstring, the guy I replaced offered to send me half his check for working the fourth quarter. Naturally, I declined. Four seasons ago I blew out my knee in the second quarter of a varsity game and they had to call a JV official in to work the rest of the game. I don't remember offering anyone part of my check, but I was in a great deal of pain and ended up in the hospital and simply don't remember how I got paid for that -- and didn't care (the fee at the time was something like $57.50).

It all evens out. But if I missed a half of a game because of traffic, I would have probably apologized again to the AD and told him to please keep the money for the entire first game.

Of course, where I live a game cannot start with less than 2 licensed officials. So here, they'd find a replacement or they'd wait.

Lombardi Time ...
 

According to former Green Bay Packer great, Paul Hourning, there were two "times" when playing for coach Vince Lombardi. Regular time versus "Lombardi Time." Regular time was what most people followed. Lombardi Time was always 15 minutes earlier. And it was adhered to by winners. If a Packer meeting was scheduled to begin at 8:00am, astute players knew to arrive and be ready to go at 7:45am. Every time.

AKA military time

All of this is fair.

Really? On the basketball court? I'd bet most of the referee injuries are due to inadequate stretching, carrying too much weight, or otherwise being out of shape. Those are controllable, if we choose.

We're not working under an employee agreement. We're independent contractors. If we don't do the job, we don't get paid. If I hire someone to build a chicken house, and he gets started late, and the chickens arrive before he gets the doors on, and the chickens all escape, I'm not paying him a nickel, even though he did do half the job.:)

World class athletes are in better shape than anyone, and they still pull hamstrings. Just sayin...Stretching before during, and after won't prevent 100% of injuries.

I am not even sure why we are talking about injuries here :confused:

The bottom line is that you didn't make it to the game until the second half. You were not there to work a complete game and shouldn't be paid for a complete game. You already know my opinion, you shouldn't accept pay for any of the game. It doesn't matter if the situation was out of your hands or not - you weren't there. And while I believe you when you say you were stuck in traffic, do you know how many times people use that excuse when they are late somewhere? Had I been in your situation I would not have accepted any money for the first game - even if I had only missed the tip off and got there before the first points were scored.

As someone else said - this doesn't make you a bad person or a bad official. Just accept it as part of life, learn from it and move on.

Then show up on time. It's that simple. Why should a school pay for a full game of two officials when they only got one official for an entire half?

The OP has no right to be upset. I understand things happen and in my younger officiating days I'm sure I was late for a tip off or two for a rec league or even a small private school. One time, my pay was adjusted accordingly and I could only be upset at myself.

But now, I always make sure I give myself extra time and if I even think there is a possibility I may be running late I give my assigner and/or partners a call. Leaving at 4pm for a 5:30 game (during rush hour) that is 45 minutes away to an area that you don't know is really not giving yourself enough time.

Be glad that you got anything at all for the game and that you arent in my association where not only would you have not been paid, but would be fined a game fee for missing the entire first half.

As someone that actually lives here, there are a lot of schools that would not do anything different but pay you your whole fee if you worked the entire game, especially if you called and told them you were stuck in traffic. That happens a lot here especially on those early games. Unless the contract says something different, they should pay you the entire fee. That being said saying something is not going to get much of anywhere. But I know many that have paid when you show up in this very situation.

Peace

Just don't get it, do you?

Let's say you took your car to get the tires rotated/balanced. Because his air wrench jammed, he was only able to do 3 of the 4 tires. Are you going to pay him for balancing all 4 tires? I don't think so.

Tell ya what, why don't you call the AD tomorrow and raise hell about that one half you didn't get paid for because you didn't work it? Then, the AD will know that he hired 1) an official who can't depend on to be on time AND 2) who thinks he deserves to be paid for a job he didn't do. Yep, go ahead and burn that bridge. You don't want to go back there, right?

I swear, some of you young guys have got some strange ideas about what you're "owed." :rolleyes:

JRut,
If the school is willing to pay the money, taking the money is fine. Ultimately, the contract states that we are to be at a particular place at a particular time to perform a particular duty. While calling ahead is nice, it still does not free one of the responsibility of being at the game on time.

The schools budgeted for TWO OFFICIALS for FOUR QUARTERS. They got ONE OFFICIAL for TWO QUARTERS and TWO OFFICIALS for TWO QUARTERS. Did the schools get what they contracted for? Should the schools be required to pay for EIGHT "OFFICIAL'S QUARTERS" when they only got SIX?

In our local Catholic league, we have had a rule that states that a SINGLE OFFICIAL gets 1.5 times the pay of a two person crew. The reasons for this rule are to prevent officials from simply "splitting up" and making the entire fee AND an acknowledgment that ONE OFFICIAL is NOT as good as TWO OFFICIALS.

These situations can and DO happen. At the same time, the responsibility for arriving ON TIME rests on the OFFICIALS' shoulders. Taking a 50% pay cut for that game was MORE than reasonable, in my opinion. While going after the money might seem like a good idea in the short term, getting some "bad press" from the AD at this school as he talks to MANY OTHERS is a losing proposition for you.

I would write an apology letter to the school that outlines why you were late. I would be sure to THANK the AD for 50% of the first game fee. This technique will get you MUCH FURTHER in your career than the extra $20 would EVER buy you...in my humble opinion.

Why don't you try reading my posts, and then you might see that I was just sparking more conversation. Asking questions, looking for answers and opinions. I asked advice on what to do, and many have given their opinion.

Before attacking us young guys just because we're young, try reading first.

Read the whole thread and the same questions have been answered over and over again. You're just looking for someone to agree with you. One idiot does. What more do you want?

Don't want repleis, don't ask for them.

I'm not looking for anyone to agree with me. Jeff is clearly in the minority with his opinion, and he's not even on "my side", he's somewhere between the two. I wouldn't call him an idiot either.

I get the analogies that are made. I'm not disputing anything. Post #26, by me, says "All this is fair". All I'm doing, is asking more questions...that's usually how good conversation works.

No it's not...it is someone fishing for a scenario where they can be affirmed. That's not good conversation. That's boring.

You did not work that half. You do not deserve the money for that half. Give it up.

That's fine...I'm not persisting...Geez people...I get it. Throwing out hypotheticals is what I'm doing. If I really wanted to argue with you all, I'd be doing the Yeah But thing...but I'm not.

First of all, not many people if any that commented on this post live here but me. That being said it is not as cut and dry as many think it is as it is up to each school to decide what they will do. Some will be fine and pay the entire fee, others will not. But unlike many here we can work where we want and when we want. I never have to take a game anywhere. So if I do not like their policy, I can work where ever I like. Just like there are some schools that will give the entire check if no one shows and other schools that will pay only part of the check. What you have to decide is what you are willing to do for that money. And nowhere in any contract is it explicit what should be done in these cases, which is why there is nothing wrong with asking what should be done. I am not surprised by the actions of this school, but it is not consistent with everyone. We are independent contractors, not slaves to what groups want.

Peace

I'd say that you're lucky to be paid for the first game at all.

While a traffic jam might be out of your control, you can plan to leave early enough that you largely eliminate the probability of being materially impacted by it enough to matter.

I always target arriving at a gym 1 hour before game time. I plan for extra traffic on distant games (adding 10-20 minutes over what google says) such that if goes well, I might get there even 75 or more minutes before. If it is a new school in an unfamiliar area, I even add more time. I can drive very quickly, but planning shortcutting a trip time during rush hour to an unfamiliar area is just not a good idea.

What does where you live have to do with this?

It has a lot to do with this. There are different policies for different places. As a matter of fact every school has a different view on what their officials are supposed in this state. Some might have a policy because the assignor is making some of these decisions, other it is an individual school district policy. This is no different than what would be the case if we talked about what to say to an assignor about a situation. All assignors do not have the same policies how to be notified of things or how they handle conflicts between coaches and officials or what is done in this situation. So it is good to know what others do, but not necessarily helpful in what is ultimately what should be done here. This is really the case when people say what should happen when they have no idea what schools around here do normally. I know officials in this very situation have paid the official the entire check. Now whether Stiffler is upset is another issue. And how he wants is up to him and the people that gave him the game. Personally I would probably let it go. But that is because it is not advantageous in the end to make a big deal out of it. But I have had a similar thing happen to me; only get all the money in almost every case. Some schools are just happy anyone made it as this might happen more than we want to admit because of who was scheduling the games. So yes, it does matter where this took place, not what everyone else here has to deal with in their area. Again, we are independent contractors for real in this state. We are ultimately responsible for how we run this business we call officiating.

Peace

Where the OP happened is irrelevant, and where you live in relation to the OP matters even less, if that's possible. If stiffler, as an independent contractor, thinks he should be paid for work which was not performed, let's just say that is contrary to the norm in anything. No doubt some schools would give out the whole amount anyway, maybe even add a "Sorry you had a problem."
But if they choose not to do so, he has no possible complaint.

Anyone can complain about anything they want to. I know I complained when I was "helping out" I did not like what took place with me. And there was no policy to say what should be done across the board. And when the situation reversed, I did not accommodate them at all when they made a mistake. It works both ways. ;)

Peace

That explains why where you live was important. Thanks.

I arrived late to a game this year because I misread my schedule and had the wrong start time. I was more embarrassed than I've ever been in my life. I tried to insist that I not be paid but the AD wouldn't hear of it.

If you are late for any reason within or outside of your control, you have not earned any money for the game. To even suggest otherwise demonstrates a shocking sense of entitlement. Despite this, some schools are generous and will pay you any way. Any pay in this situation is a gift you should be grateful for, not a slight.

I don't think we're talking about world class athletes here. Haven't seen many of them in stripes. Far too many of us are 'athletes' bordering on the other end of that spectrum.

So are they going to be happy with 75% of the calls that two officials would have made or are they going to pi$$ and moan the same way they would with 2 officials. The acknowledgment that one official is not as good as two officials is "DUH" - so lets penalize the guy that did show because he can't be as good as 2 officials even though he has to take the crap of two officials.

Makes no sense!:(

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think a solo official should be paid *anything* more by the school. And if they are, that money should come from the other official who didn't show up (in the form of a fine paid by the official or from the association).

I kind of like not having to worry about being in that position. It won't happen to us Rich - but some places it's common practice to have only one official and I think that they deserve something extra if they have to work a game alone, watch everything and deal with all the yutz's in the crowd and on the bench alone.

IDK Rich. If I take care of business by confirming with my partner(s) & I go solo anyway, I'm gonna need a game & a half fee.

The school still saves money & we are compensated for our extra work.

I don't work solo unless i'm getting paid double. That is my HS association's policy. The school is not expected to pay the full fee. That's where the fine for the missing official comes in.

I'm looking at it from the school's perspective. I'm getting one, I pay for one. If I use an association, I'm expecting them to pay the extra money. If I'm contracting officials myself, then I can negotiate with the official if I *really* want to have the game played with one official.

If there's no association involved and no policy spelled out on the contract, I'm certainly not obligated to pay double.

That said, I don't have to worry about this. We don't start with 1 official and if I show up on time I'm getting paid whether we play the game or not.

My point exactly. I don't claim to be a great athlete, I'd consider myself lucky to be healthy through two seasons.

That is a much overused argument that he uses when he has no other logical points to back up his argument.

To his credit, he has not busted that one out in a looonnnggg time. But - here it is again.

And it has nothing to do with the OP.

The person and the game is in the same area I do. Yes it does matter. People from 3 states over have no idea what is expected here.

Peace

To answer your question...
 

Yes you should be upset. You should be upset with yourself for being late for an avoidable reason (not leaving early enough) and for even assuming that you were wronged in all of this.

Turning in a slightly different direction ...
 

Didn't want to confuse by starting another thread on somewhat similar topic.

How would you handle this 'non-working' scenario:

You're scheduled for two games and the visiting team in the second game doesn't show for at least 45 minutes, when you have to leave. What was originally supposed to be a triple-header was knocked down to a double-header months ago because one team pulled out of the middle game. The change went through the Arbiter and everyone knows about it, except the V team, apparently.

This is MS-age travel ball, by the way. I hang as long as I can but the have to leave to work HS ball. My partner said he would stay and work it, alone if necessary, when the other team arrived.

Who should get paid what?

I'm a little confused by your scenario. You're saying the second game was correct on Arbiter but the visitors didn't show? In that case, yes, I would hope to be paid. I held up my end of the deal. I wouldn't, however, force the issue.

The only time I've ever forced the issue on being paid was when a game got canceled at 10:00 AM (due to a bomb threat) and the AD didn't call me until 3:15 PM and left a message on my answering machine (I'd left for the game at 3:00). I got my money but never received another game at that school (not that I wanted one).

The question was whether the OP'er should be upset that he did not get paid for something that he did not do...

Makes no difference where you are from. The answer is no.

Yep, a different but related question would be, "Is this what I should have expected?"

I was not only responding to what the OP'er was saying. And his level of being upset over this is up to him, not people that have different areas that have different or specific policies. Here it is expected to have "traffic" problems and many times depending on the nature of the situation it is not considered a big deal.

Peace

Sorry about that. Yes, the second game was correct on Arbiter, except the visiting team didn't notice it had been moved up an hour, apparently.

I don't plan to push much (rather just report to the assigner and see where the chips fall), but I was wondering what others would do. Thanks

Due to the nature of my commute, I often drive upwards of 70 miles to a game; sometimes through the rush hour of two separate metropolitan areas combined with what has to be one of the busiest rural interstate stretches in the country.
The worst I have ever done is show with just enough time to change clothes and hit the court; and that was due to a car accident blocking traffic near the Air Force Academy. Had it not been for the frosh game taking a bit long, I would have truly been late (I walked into the building at 5:30 for a scheduled 5:30 game).
The worst part was, as I walked into the locker room, the local board president was in the middle of getting dressed to fill in for me (he was there for the varsity game after my game). It was not my shining moment.

Yeah 25 is no joke, particularly South. I leave 2 hours early when I have to go that route.

BL is generally a page turner... did he give you a pass?

Not much was said, really. Ever. :D

There are some in my area that would want to pull your games for being this late. Or say that if the another officials is dressed to work, then they will finish the game. ;)

Peace

Sounds fair to me...........

Worked with a guy this season that showed up 20 minutes before tip-off. State evaluator just happened to be observing & sat in on our pregame :eek:

My partner & I changed from greys to stripes as the official from the prior game only had stripes. Our 3rd strolls in & the evaluator says, "you're off this game!" 3rd says, "you're not the assignor, I'm working!" So we changed back to greys. I dont expect he will go too far in the tourney...

By Contract, 150% Game Fee For One Official In Connecticut
 

It's to keep athletic directors from requesting, as a cost cutting measure, that only one official be assigned to the game. They figure that it's not worth the 25% savings to have only one official. If they only had to pay only one game fee to one official they might request only one official for middle school, and freshman games, maybe even some junior varsity games,.

When an official is assigned and doesn't show up it's not the AD's fault. If there's an association that assigns, it's not the AD's fault.

Easy way to fix this. State association requires a game can't start with 1 official (like my state did).

I cannot read the whole thing
 

Don't be a "Yabut". I have filled in for guys because I got there early. Don't expect anything for doing that. I care more about helping the association saving face. I have also stayed as a JV official and filled in when a varsity official got ill and couldn't fill in for the second half. The AD asked about the checks and I said I would do it for the experience. You were late and the AD probably would have preferred to have his gym teacher fill in for BOTH games and pay you NOTHING. You have been told this numerous times. You are NOT sparking conversation, you are not accepting what has been told to you. You were LUCKY to get paid ANYTHING for the first game.

The other guy I would be apologizing profusely to right about now is your assignor. I imagine he is not too thrilled about these developments.

Our Association has a policy regarding no-shows and late-shows...not only are you not paid, you are fined whatever the amount is that you would have been paid.

So not showing up for an assigned frosh game, you lose the $29 game fee, and you are fined an additional $29 by the Board (emergencies, accidents, etc are not fined). You show up at halftime of that frosh game, you are docked the$14.50 and fined an additional $14.50. The $14.50 you are docked goes to your partner who worked the first half alone.

Nice policy! You guys need a raise though :(

:) I believe that is the three-person rate. Two-person is higher.

OK So I want to diverge a bit.

A couple of times I have worked either a JV or varsity game prior to another varsity game. When I finished the other crew was not complete and i offered to work the second game and the AD approved. I got out on the floor, and at 2 min before the game, the assigned official shows up.

So, when do you "have" the game and the right to tell the official who failed to show up on Lombardi time to head on down the road?

Thanks

Roy G

Depends on your area. I'd think before the game is okay; during the 1Q *might* be okay; any later and it would (or could) change the game too much.